Virginity and Mass Killings

I'd like your take on how being a virgin/not being successful with any girls could either spark or add fuel to a fire festering inside of a mass killer.

If you look at some of the most 'prominent' mass killers, a lack of romantic/sexual success was a commonality.

-Eric/Dylan were "probably" virgins according to Brooks Brown, and I think it's obvious that they never had success with women according to their journals.
-TJ Lane went to prison a virgin according to a phone interview with former inmate Steve Brigner.
-Elliot Rodger constantly complained about "lonely" and a virgin. He stated over and over that he desperately wanted love and sex.
-Seung-Hui Cho complained about hedonism, although that doesn't necessarily mean he was referring to sex. However one of his professors commented that he wrote a play about love when in fact he had no experience with the feeling.
-Chris Harper-Mercer complained that he would die a "kissless, girlfriendless, virgin"
-James Holmes used to hire prostitutes, presumably because he couldn't find an actual girlfriend.
-Hell, even Timothy McVeigh reported being unable to impress girls throughout adolescence.

Thoughts?

I would think that if that were a factor, they'd be solely targeting girls.

For Elliot this reason is pretty exclusive for him I mean that's why he even shot up people and then himself in the first place, YouTube videos after another about how he's the perfect guy so why don't any girls want him.

For Elliot this reason is pretty exclusive for him I mean that's why he even shot up people and then himself in the first place, YouTube videos after another about how he's the perfect guy so why don't any girls want him.

The only one I think did it strictly because of women was Elliot Rodger. He was the only one (that I know of) who constantly went on and on and on about women. Making all these weird ass videos talking about "the day of retribution" and killing all the hottest girls because all girls hated him and how all women should want him because he's so magnificent. This loon had really high standards when it came to women and he also never even bothered trying to talk to these women. He just sat in his car at the beach watching all these girls with their boyfriends and getting pissed off.

There's just as many people who have done mass killings that weren't virgins. That didn't stop them. And someone like Eric who had such anger and hate issues, that would not have gone away just from having sex a few times. He might have been happy in the moment but he would've still gone through with it. He even said in his journal he wanted to try and get sex because NBK was coming up quick. So basically, I take that as he wanted to do it before NBK and that he'd still be going through with it even if he did get laid.

Did Cho not nail hookers?

Draw_It_White wrote:

Did Cho not nail hookers?

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From this article, it doesn't sound like he was used to hiring or sleeping with prostitutes. I haven't heard any other mentions of prostitutes.

So where does Steve Kazmierczeck fit in this category?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Steve is crazy and his girlfriend looks mentally stunted too.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Steve is crazy and his girlfriend looks mentally stunted too.

You mean like she was floored upon learning what her boyfriend did?

aquillina wrote:

You mean like she was floored upon learning what her boyfriend did?

I mean that she seems slow and couldn't see through Steve's sanity falling apart though I wouldn't blame her for it cause his issues seemed to have built up gradually.

X-Raided wrote:

I'd like your take on how being a virgin/not being successful with any girls could either spark or add fuel to a fire festering inside of a mass killer.

My take on that is that guys are implicitly forced by society to have sex, no matter how, once they've reached a certain age. If you're not successful within a reasonable (?) amount of time, get ready to be laughed at. If your self-esteem has already plummeted badly because of other issues, consider the damage already half done.

There are many men who are still virgins or are still single who don't go shooting up places. So the difference and better questions are why some of these murderers end up killing. Are they insane or did they have a bigger better motive and still being unlaid is just a side factor

My OPINION

is that it doesnt matter. Most of these shooters seem to be filled with fear and that fear ends up being expressed in all ways. What are the way I express myself? Sexually, emotionally, verbally, physically, friends, family, job, grades, school, video games, music, drugs, alcohol, god, dreams, goals, pets.

These are all my connections from my being to the world. It makes sense that all these kids were virgins because thats probably what they complained about the most. A lot of them also thought they were victims and were owed something.

If they were getting laid they would probably just say that the girls broke their heart. It would have just been one more thing to say the world was out to get them

Amarantha wrote:

X-Raided wrote:

I'd like your take on how being a virgin/not being successful with any girls could either spark or add fuel to a fire festering inside of a mass killer.

My take on that is that guys are implicitly forced by society to have sex, no matter how, once they've reached a certain age. If you're not successful within a reasonable (?) amount of time, get ready to be laughed at. If your self-esteem has already plummeted badly because of other issues, consider the damage already half done.

Totally agree with this. And unfortunately if they're also mentally unstable it's likely they will take it out on someone or everyone else. I think these types of things are major factors into why most shootings happen

Hmmmmm. Good question. Makes me think.

Aggression usually has much to do with sexual frustrations/dissatisfaction. I mean it is surely not the only contributing factor, but I do think it is important.

It might be very hard: both an inner drive - young people have much more sex hormones in their system than mature people - and these outer expectations [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] mentioned - these two things must add to an - already unstable - person's frustration.

So, getting laid might help preventing a potential mass murderer's action.

But buying sex is not necessarily a solution.
Even Breivik bought such services - so typical of him, a common "professional" wouldn't have been good and elite enough for him, so he hired a "model escort girl" before he went amok. He wrote something like this about it: he needed it, so that his unfulfilled sexual desires would not distract him fron "Teh Great Action". Blehhhh. And it is known that last time he had a girlfriend was in 2005!

aquillina wrote:

So where does Steve Kazmierczeck fit in this category?

Steve actually lost his virginity at 16. He had sex almost routinely, which happens when some people become manic.

I think that virginity or lack of affection from girls (and people in general but girls especially) can add to or create feelings of hopelessness and since hopelessness is a key factor in creating mass shooters i would say, yes it can be an important piece of the puzzle.

I don't think the lack of female affection is a motivator, minus cases like Elliot Roger and George Sodini. However, I do think that at least in some cases, if there had been female affection, they might not have committed mass murder.

Imagine that there is a concert on Friday. You are motivated to go since a band you enjoy will be playing. However, your friend has a birthday party that same night. So you decide not to go to the concert. It's not as if the motivation to go to the concert disappeared, just that there is something, or rather someone, that you find more important.

In a similar way the 'motivation' for mass murder might still exist, but because they now have a girlfriend/wife they decide not to do it.

Why are we demonizing kids for not having sex early enough?

For all we know Dylan would have done fine with women in college?

Not having sex in HS is not indicative of an issue, it’s just life.

log_1987 wrote:

I don't think the lack of female affection is a motivator, minus cases like Elliot Roger and George Sodini. However, I do think that at least in some cases, if there had been female affection, they might not have committed mass murder.

Imagine that there is a concert on Friday. You are motivated to go since a band you enjoy will be playing. However, your friend has a birthday party that same night. So you decide not to go to the concert. It's not as if the motivation to go to the concert disappeared, just that there is something, or rather someone, that you find more important.

In a similar way the 'motivation' for mass murder might still exist, but because they now have a girlfriend/wife they decide not to do it.

I agree, lack of female affection is rarely the main motivator with cases such as Rodger or Chris Harper Mercer being the exception. It is not a direct motivator, but it can be part of one. If someone is at a point where they feel that they will never be happy, that no one will ever love them, that no one will ever desire them, that the world is against them, then they feel as if they have nothing to lose and from that point, if they are in a specific mental state, murder can become and enticing form of revenge, so in that way it can be a major part of a key motivator but the lack of affection from girls on its own is never enough to cause mass murder.

Dmitry Vinogradov the virgin.

I guess, not anymore, lol