Defending the Bullies?

I don't mean to keep bringing this up, but I feel like some of you defend the bullies, it's not right. They were the main reason Eric and Dylan snapped. Why can't anyone have empathy for the 2 boys getting called names and beat up everyday?

Well I certainly don't defend bullying.

People that bully others physically, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, etc pisses me off.

Ever since I was young, I hated to see people getting picked on.

In the case of Eric/Dylan, they did have some issues with bullying or being ostracized but certainly not everyday.

Other people have experienced that as well and became shooters.

Myself, I can personally understand how those things can make someone want to kill in retaliation.

sororityalpha wrote:

Well I certainly don't defend bullying.

People that bully others physically, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, etc pisses me off.

Ever since I was young, I hated to see people getting picked on.

In the case of Eric/Dylan, they did have some issues with bullying or being ostracized but certainly not everyday.

Other people have experienced that as well and became shooters.

Myself, I can personally understand how those things can make someone want to kill in retaliation.

Sorority, what got me is why didn't the teachers or principal doing anything about? I mean I'm tired of hearing "kids will be kids"

I think the teachers/principal didn't do anything about it because it was status quo.

The atmosphere at Columbine prior to April 20 1999 was considered "normal" by them.

Sad but true.

Just to let everyone know, I still don't condone murder. I do wish they would teach self defense classes in school though like maybe for an elective.

So, you yourself was victim of bullying and yet you can't empathize with these actual victims? You know, the ones that never did a damn thing to E&D? The ones who barely knew them or not at all. I wish you well sorting through these bully issues that are the crux of your posts.

Tomb wrote:

So, you yourself was victim of bullying and yet you can't empathize with these actual victims?  You know, the ones that never did a damn thing to E&D? The ones who barely knew them or not at all. I wish you well sorting through these bully issues that are the crux of your posts.

I never said I didn't emphasize with the victims, of course what E&D did was wrong. I think you misunderstood my post.

I've seen you post this more than once, but what you need to understand is that no one here can answer for the staff at columbine as to why they didn't put a stop to the bullying that went on there. The only people who would have any explanation are the people who were there at the time. All anyone here can do is speculate.

I also hope you realize that just because people here don't have the answers you're looking for doesn't mean they're defending bullies. I haven't read any comments from anyone on this forum defending or supporting the bullies, but I have seen many comments and even threads dedicated to sympathizing with E&D. There are a few people here who have expressed that they are not at all empathetic towards E&D, but they seem to be in the minority. The majority of people here are more interested intrying to figure E&D out as people. It's been established that bullying was Not the only factor that contributed to the shooting, and keep in mind E&D were not exactly innocent when It came to bullying either. I think everyone here tries to look at if from other angles instead of just accepting bullying as the only reason and leaving it at that.  

I apologize if this comment came across as harsh, but it just seems like you keep repeating yourself because you're not getting the answers what you want to hear.

I wish their were some of kind device that would erase all your memories from the past, but I know that's not realistic.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] why are still posting this same subject over and over in new threads? You have several where people have responded. This isn't an exclusive bully forum. We know you've had issues. But so has everyone else.

bradt93 wrote:

I wish their were some of kind device that would erase all your memories from the past, but I know that's not realistic.

Look man, not to get personal, but everyone deals with some form of trauma in life, some much worse than others. Everyone has bad memories to some extent. You have to learn and grow from it instead of letting it eat you alive and consume you. No good comes from dwelling on bad things that happened over a decade ago. Think about how long ago that was. You're not in that situation anymore and its not gonna help you or anyone else by holding onto it forever and incorporating it into every topic that gets brought up here. And it's not really fair to accuse people here who don't have the answers you're looking for of defending the bullies who picked on the columbine shooters...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] did I read that right? 10 years ago? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] we can't help you with your past. I think you should consider a counselor to help you with these problems.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] well live in 2007 because that ALWAYS is better than dealing with your issues. An alleged victim who hates children murdered, the ultimate victims of bullying and terror who did not do a damn thing to those you idolize. I have tried to help you and went out of my way as I battled CANCER and you roll your eyes? The cause of your issues are abundantly clear.

@brad93 I'm not sure I understand what your intentions were when you created this thread. You can look all over this forum and find plenty of comments empathizing with E&D. What you wont find are comments supporting or defending bullies.  If you're referring to comments made by people condemning the shooting I hope you understand that condemning E&D's decision to handle their frustrations in life by committing murder doesn't mean that they support the bullies that contributed to E&D's frustrations. Or if this is in reference to the Evan Todd comments, again defending Evan Todd as victim of the shooting (regardless of the shitty comments he made afterwards) doesn't point to defending bullies.  I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that no one empathizes with E&D or that anyone is defending the douchebags that picked on them.

I hope Evan Todd is collecting royalties for how much you have maligned him. Several people have explained over and over AD NAUSEUM about the circumstances. And yet, every thread has an Evan Todd reference.

bradt93 wrote:

I don't mean to keep bringing this up, but I feel like some of you defend the bullies, it's not right. They were the main reason Eric and Dylan snapped. Why can't anyone have empathy for the 2 boys getting called names and beat up everyday?

you are projecting your personal experiences and emotions into this. Few of us have not been on the bad end of bullying at some point in our lives and even those few that haven't would be against bullying. Who likes, defends or promotes bullying? Few, but none that I've seen in this forum.

Having said that, it's hard to express a lot of empathy for two kids who are documented to have bullied others themselves & committed one of the most heinous mass shootings in the history of the world... upon almost exclusively innocent people.

This isn't a case of two completely innocent victims of bullying retaliating against their tormentors. Even the I wouldn't condone the level of violence.

Despite vast samples of empathy for E&D on this board, one must be realistic in the fact that a persons actions at some point may wash out public opinion on how they arrived at their level of destruction.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

I don't mean to keep bringing this up, but I feel like some of you defend the bullies, it's not right. They were the main reason Eric and Dylan snapped. Why can't anyone have empathy for the 2 boys getting called names and beat up everyday?

you are projecting your personal experiences and emotions into this.  Few of us have not been on the bad end of bullying at some point in our lives and even those few that haven't would  be against bullying.  Who likes, defends or promotes bullying?  Few, but none that I've seen in this forum.

Having said that, it's hard to express a lot of empathy for two kids who are documented to have bullied others themselves & committed one of the most heinous mass shootings in the history of the world...  upon almost exclusively innocent people.

This isn't a case of two completely innocent victims of bullying retaliating against their tormentors.  Even the I wouldn't condone the level of violence.

Despite vast samples of empathy for E&D on this board, one must be realistic in the fact that a persons actions at some point may wash out public opinion on how they arrived at their level of destruction.  

Well, they shouldn't of killed innocent people, why wouldn't they take out their tormentors instead? it's unrealistic.

Tomb wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] well live in 2007 because that ALWAYS is better than dealing with your issues. An alleged victim who hates children murdered, the ultimate victims of bullying and terror who did not do a damn thing to those you idolize. I have tried to help you and went out of my way as I battled CANCER and you roll your eyes? The cause of your issues are abundantly clear.

I told you before I was sorry for you going through cancer. I'm not heartless. I rolled my eyes, because of the topic we are discussing. All I'm saying is their was a reason why those 2 guys snapped when they did and no I don't idolize them for god sake. I'm someone who's very interested in the columbine case.

Most of their 'tormentors' graduated in May 1998 - (Some of them are referenced in Eric's Class of '98 Top of the "Should Have Died" List)

However, as we saw, Eric/Dylan still planned to target the entire school afterwards.

bradt93 wrote:

Well, they shouldn't of killed innocent people, why wouldn't they take out their tormentors instead? it's unrealistic.

They didn't "just take out their tormentors" b/c bullying was Not the only reason why they shot up their school. In fact most of the people who bullied them graduated the year before the shooting took place.

Their killing was aimless. They had no specific targets because they essentially wanted everyone to die (which is why they planted bombs in the most populated area of the school). They anticipated 500+ deaths, including the deaths of their own friends, which they justified as "collateral damage". Their plan was to kill everyone and If there happened to be any survivors they wanted them to be forever haunted and tormented by the event. There was so much more than Just bullying that drove them to this point.

Not to get involved in this argument but sometimes it takes a long, long time to get over rage and bitterness from being bullied.I can say that I was well into adulthood before I was able to make any real progress on moving on or letting any of my rage and bitterness go.It was not an easy thing to do. What happened in my case to allow my to start the process of moving on was a combination of life experiences and finding religion.

Maybe Brad just isn't there yet.Sometimes it takes some large event in your life to even make you realize you have a need to start trying to move on.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that makes total sense, and I too know what it's like to struggle with getting over people treating you very negatively. However my issue stems from the question of why create a thread dedicated to accusing members here of defending bullies when nowhere on this forum are there posts from anyone supporting this accusation? All of my posts which have referenced this question haven't been acknowledged by the original poster. There are no examples to back up that anyone here supports bullying, and I'm assuming the op took comments posted in other threads the wrong way to come to this conclusion.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Not to get involved in this argument but sometimes  it takes a long, long time to get over rage and bitterness from being bullied.I can say that I was well into adulthood before I was able to make any real progress on moving on or letting any of my rage and bitterness go.It was not an easy thing to do. What happened in my case to allow my to start the process of moving on was a combination of life experiences and finding religion.

Maybe Brad just isn't there yet.Sometimes it takes some large event in your life to even make you realize you have a need to start trying to move on.

Trust me, after college, I'm moving out of this state, I want to move to California and start over. I can't run away from problems, but a new surrounding would probably be good for me.

Tomb wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] well live in 2007 because that ALWAYS is better than dealing with your issues. An alleged victim who hates children murdered, the ultimate victims of bullying and terror who did not do a damn thing to those you idolize. I have tried to help you and went out of my way as I battled CANCER and you roll your eyes? The cause of your issues are abundantly clear.

tomb, my mother just battled breast cancer so I'm so sorry for what you're going through, thank gosh she caught it early. You are in my prayers and thoughts. You're a kind person and I'm sorry I rolled my eyes.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Oh no worries. After all, what fun is life without a little death?

If Eric and Dylan hypothetically walked up to Rocky who was supposedly the biggest bully ever and shot him dead without shooting anyone else would that make things ok?

If that happened I would still feel for the victim because of the loss of life. Rocky might be a terrible example because I hear that he is still a negative individual even as an adult, but the vast majority of school bullies turn out as regular people. Just as Eric and Dylan could have turned their lives around the bullies could too. I have never seen negative comments from Evan Todd that were not taken from interviews prior to 2004 or so. Do you think he is still a bitter negative individual? Maybe. But maybe not.

What if Hitler was bullied incessantly as a child? Does that excuse the worst mass murders in the history of modern times? Funnily enough, those he brutally treated and ultimately murdered were innocent victims. Kind of like...all the victims who were innocent in Columbine. And most other school shootings and this new wave of mass murder.

Tomb wrote:

What if Hitler was bullied incessantly as a child? Does that excuse the worst mass murders in the history of modern times? Funnily enough, those he brutally treated and ultimately murdered were innocent victims. Kind of like...all the victims who were innocent in Columbine. And most other school shootings and this new wave of mass murder.

I share that thought.. abusers of many types were abused at a young age and morph into abusers themselves. Taking this to another level.. Eric's psych profile is frighteningly similar to a young Adolph Hitler.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] we're not defending any bullies. It may seem so because Eric and Dylan ended up committing mass homicide which made them even more despicable than what any bully had done.
You might ask so why didn't they take out the people who were horrid to them but innocent people? Because then their message would be spread louder. They wanted to cause collateral damage. They wanted to take the WHOLE school, the WORLD with them, their friends even if they did. They weren't gonna go out like "losers" taking their own lives.

Well, I know we will never truly stop bullying in schools, but I wish their were state and federal laws against it.

Never thought of making bullying illegal.

That would be interesting.

I question if any school shooter or bombers should be compared on any level to Hitler or any other despot?

I really feel that Hitler, Stalin ect are in a category by themselves,although that category is a very old one.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
Understood and I wasn't trying to take a side in the disagreement, just explain what Brad might still be going through based on my own experiences . For the last several months I have been so drained by and engrossed in my work that I haven't been able to post here like I once did so I didn't want to make it look like I was taking a side.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I question if any school shooter or bombers should be compared on any level to Hitler or any other despot?

I really feel that Hitler, Stalin ect are in a category by themselves,although that category is a very old one.

People from different categories. Shooters tend to have difficulties with integration into society. They do not occupy a high position, are not leaders.
Hitler literally hypnotized the crowd his public appearances, although he was a strange man. In any case, politics has always been dirty business. War and conflict, a struggle for power or for resources have nothing to do with school shootings.

I never equated E&D to Hitler. I have no idea where that came from. If someone is going to excuse the slaughter of innocent people on the basis of the possibility of bullying, then where do the apologists draw the line?

I don't believe that Eric and Dylan suffered extensive bullying at the school. On the contrary, I believe Eric and Dylan bullied others.

In the 11k, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold frequently bullied others.

17 people, including close friend Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed.

20 or so people, most of whom did not know them well, say they saw them bullied, but most of this was probably in retaliation for Eric and Dylan's bullying campaign against others.

The biggest supporter of Eric and Dylan being bullied was Brooks Brown, who had an axe to grind against school administrators and told many stories that no one else in the 11k corroborates.

Remember that Eric and Dylan did not shoot jocks, but mostly women, underclassmen, and people who were small and helpless, often bullying them before they did so.

Eric and Dylan were the bullies. Not the other way around.

Bullying someone else is a symptom of being bullied in certain people. Most people who go out of their way to make another person feel bad is doing it because someone is doing it to them. Eric and Dylan WERE bullied and they were mean to other people, maybe not to full extent to be tagged as the class bullies but being negative towards people in a way to deal with it happening to them.

spidEr wrote:

Bullying someone else is a symptom of being bullied in certain people. Most people who go out of their way to make another person feel bad is doing it because someone is doing it to them. Eric and Dylan WERE bullied and they were mean to other people, maybe not to full extent to be tagged as the class bullies but being negative towards people in a way to deal with it happening to them.

Why didn't they kill the bullies then? why go after people who did nothing to them?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] That is the conundrum that brings so many here, searching for that answer. True, their plan was to blow up the school, but when the mission went a different direction, there's no conceivable explanation for their choice of victim.

It had nothing to do with any individual, and everything to do with a high concentration of victims.

bradt93 wrote:

spidEr wrote:

Bullying someone else is a symptom of being bullied in certain people. Most people who go out of their way to make another person feel bad is doing it because someone is doing it to them. Eric and Dylan WERE bullied and they were mean to other people, maybe not to full extent to be tagged as the class bullies but being negative towards people in a way to deal with it happening to them.

Why didn't they kill the bullies then? why go after people who did nothing to them?

People have explained this to you. I am not sure what else there is to say. I mean this in a gentle way so do not get offended please....but is it your aspergers that is causing you to focus on this one single aspect of the case? Because in the grand scheme of Columbine bullying is very very low on the list.

Lizpuff wrote:

People have explained this to you.  I am not sure what else there is to say.  I mean this in a gentle way so do not get offended please....but is it your aspergers that is causing you to focus on this one single aspect of the case?  Because in the grand scheme of Columbine bullying is very very low on the list.

I'm still waiting for him to explain why he created this thread accusing people here of being bully defenders when there are no posts from anyone here supporting his accusation...

And [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  just as no one here can answer why the staff did nothing to stop the bullying, no one here can answer why e&d didn't target or kill only bullies. Only e&d know the answer. As I've said in an earlier post, all we can do is Speculate. No one will ever have a definite answer.

In this thread, I have nothing to add, except vitriol and derision. Everyone has given excellent opinions. But, I get the feeling this is juicy bait for everyone to eat and engage in a USELESS debate. I'm outta this circus of ants and maggots. I'm far too educated and knowledgeable to proceed. And....drop the mike.

The reason Dylan and Eric didn't target any specific people or any specific bullies is because there were none. This was intended to be a bombing. As we know, the bombing failed miserably so they had to improvise. So they took their guns and went to a place that had easy access and a large number of students. They killed whoever they saw. Again, they did not go after any specific targets because there were none.

I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that "bullying" really had nothing to do with this. They wanted to kill everyone in that school, including their own friends. If anything, Dylan's depression and being suicidal was one of the biggest influences over this whole thing. Him wanting to die. And again, him wanting to die had nothing to do with bullying. He did not cry to his journal that he wanted to die because he was bullied and tortured. He actually said in his journal that HE was the one who picked on people, not the other way around. And again, I'm not sure why that is such a hard concept to grab a hold of?

And I'm at the point where I'm gonna start shutting down all this badmouthing of Evan Todd. Evan was a victim, not the perpetrator. Evan was the one who was shot at and injured, threatened, harassed, called a "fat fuck", humiliated and basically had to beg for his life while he had a gun shoved in his face. If this happened to you, would you have nice things to say in an interview afterwards? Evan didn't even know the killers. He never bullied them. What Evan said was that they were bullied because of how they looked and how they acted. And they did it on purpose. The Trench Coat Mafia members even admitted to doing stuff to antagonize the jocks or whoever they were feuding with. Dylan's own Mother said that Dylan intentionally did stuff to get people to look at him and/or be afraid of him. She asked Dylan not to dress with the hat, glasses and trench coat when they went out in public because people looked like they were afraid of him and Dylan just laughed like he enjoyed the negative attention. Dylan was not some innocent kid who was picked on - he was a bully. More than a few girls said they were afraid of him. Dylan was not "tortured on a daily basis". And the same thing goes for Eric. There were girls afraid of him too and girls he harassed because they didn't wanna go out with him.

And Evan Todd has actually gone on to do some really good things as an adult. He's gone to schools to talk to students about his experience at Columbine and to help educate children on the dangers of bullying. He created a fund raiser for a homeless man and raised over 100 thousand dollars for this homeless man and other Veterans (I believe it was Veterans. It was either Veterans or he donated to homeless shelters for Veterans).

And I too would like to know where you've seen anyone on this forum stand up for bullies? I've read pretty much everything that has ever been posted on this forum since Day 1 and I do not recall anyone ever encouraging or standing up for bullying. And if there was someone doing that then I and everyone else must have missed it because no one has ever brought it to my attention. Unless you're referring to Evan Todd? But like I said, he was not the bully, he was the victim. He was the one being bullied with a gun in face after he had already been shot at and injured prior to that.

And more people do than don't have empathy for Dylan and Eric. You need to stop being so one dimensional and understand that it's much more complex than Dylan and Eric were horribly bullied, snapped and killed people. There was much more than that. And while them being picked on may have been a small factor it was not the root of what happened. And asking the same questions a million times isn't going to make anyone come up with the exact answer of why this all happened. Why do you think we're still here 18 years later talking about it?

Jenn wrote:

The reason Dylan and Eric didn't target any specific people or any specific bullies is because there were none. This was intended to be a bombing. As we know, the bombing failed miserably so they had to improvise. So they took their guns and went to a place that had easy access and a large number of students. They killed whoever they saw. Again, they did not go after any specific targets because there were none.

I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that "bullying" really had nothing to do with this. They wanted to kill everyone in that school, including their own friends. If anything, Dylan's depression and being suicidal was one of the biggest influences over this whole thing. Him wanting to die. And again, him wanting to die had nothing to do with bullying. He did not cry to his journal that he wanted to die because he was bullied and tortured. He actually said in his journal that HE was the one who picked on people, not the other way around. And again, I'm not sure why that is such a hard concept to grab a hold of?

And I'm at the point where I'm gonna start shutting down all this badmouthing of Evan Todd. Evan was a victim, not the perpetrator. Evan was the one who was shot at and injured, threatened, harassed, called a "fat fuck", humiliated and basically had to beg for his life while he had a gun shoved in his face. If this happened to you, would you have nice things to say in an interview afterwards? Evan didn't even know the killers. He never bullied them. What Evan said was that they were bullied because of how they looked and how they acted. And they did it on purpose. The Trench Coat Mafia members even admitted to doing stuff to antagonize the jocks or whoever they were feuding with. Dylan's own Mother said that Dylan intentionally did stuff to get people to look at him and/or be afraid of him. She asked Dylan not to dress with the hat, glasses and trench coat when they went out in public because people looked like they were afraid of him and Dylan just laughed like he enjoyed the negative attention. Dylan was not some innocent kid who was picked on - he was a bully. More than a few girls said they were afraid of him. Dylan was not "tortured on a daily basis". And the same thing goes for Eric. There were girls afraid of him too and girls he harassed because they didn't wanna go out with him.

And Evan Todd has actually gone on to do some really good things as an adult. He's gone to schools to talk to students about his experience at Columbine and to help educate children on the dangers of bullying. He created a fund raiser for a homeless man and raised over 100 thousand dollars for this homeless man and other Veterans (I believe it was Veterans. It was either Veterans or he donated to homeless shelters for Veterans).

And I too would like to know where you've seen anyone on this forum stand up for bullies? I've read pretty much everything that has ever been posted on this forum since Day 1 and I do not recall anyone ever encouraging or standing up for bullying. And if there was someone doing that then I and everyone else must have missed it because no one has ever brought it to my attention. Unless you're referring to Evan Todd? But like I said, he was not the bully, he was the victim. He was the one being bullied with a gun in face after he had already been shot at and injured prior to that.

And more people do than don't have empathy for Dylan and Eric. You need to stop being so one dimensional and understand that it's much more complex than Dylan and Eric were horribly bullied, snapped and killed people. There was much more than that. And while them being picked on may have been a small factor it was not the root of what happened. And asking the same questions a million times isn't going to make anyone come up with the exact answer of why this all happened. Why do you think we're still here 18 years later talking about it?

I'm just very interested in the case as a whole, but I guess we will never really know why they did the things they did. Also, didn't a few girls like Eric and Dylan, but they didn't give them a chance? I thought as far as girls go, they weren't actually that scared to approach them.

bradt93 wrote:

I'm just very interested in the case as a whole, but I guess we will never really know why they did the things they did. Also, didn't a few girls like Eric and Dylan, but they didn't give them a chance? I thought as far as girls go, they weren't actually that scared to approach them.

Eric seemed to be able to approach girls and he dated a few over time. The relationships didn't last very long and Eric didn't take break-ups well. He harassed one girl online and in his freshman year, he supposedly faked a suicide attempt after he went on one date with a girl and she wouldn't go out with him again. Dylan had much more difficulty approaching girls because he was so shy. However, Robyn was interested in him and he made it clear that he saw her as just a friend.

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

The reason Dylan and Eric didn't target any specific people or any specific bullies is because there were none. This was intended to be a bombing. As we know, the bombing failed miserably so they had to improvise. So they took their guns and went to a place that had easy access and a large number of students. They killed whoever they saw. Again, they did not go after any specific targets because there were none.

I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that "bullying" really had nothing to do with this. They wanted to kill everyone in that school, including their own friends. If anything, Dylan's depression and being suicidal was one of the biggest influences over this whole thing. Him wanting to die. And again, him wanting to die had nothing to do with bullying. He did not cry to his journal that he wanted to die because he was bullied and tortured. He actually said in his journal that HE was the one who picked on people, not the other way around. And again, I'm not sure why that is such a hard concept to grab a hold of?

And I'm at the point where I'm gonna start shutting down all this badmouthing of Evan Todd. Evan was a victim, not the perpetrator. Evan was the one who was shot at and injured, threatened, harassed, called a "fat fuck", humiliated and basically had to beg for his life while he had a gun shoved in his face. If this happened to you, would you have nice things to say in an interview afterwards? Evan didn't even know the killers. He never bullied them. What Evan said was that they were bullied because of how they looked and how they acted. And they did it on purpose. The Trench Coat Mafia members even admitted to doing stuff to antagonize the jocks or whoever they were feuding with. Dylan's own Mother said that Dylan intentionally did stuff to get people to look at him and/or be afraid of him. She asked Dylan not to dress with the hat, glasses and trench coat when they went out in public because people looked like they were afraid of him and Dylan just laughed like he enjoyed the negative attention. Dylan was not some innocent kid who was picked on - he was a bully. More than a few girls said they were afraid of him. Dylan was not "tortured on a daily basis". And the same thing goes for Eric. There were girls afraid of him too and girls he harassed because they didn't wanna go out with him.

And Evan Todd has actually gone on to do some really good things as an adult. He's gone to schools to talk to students about his experience at Columbine and to help educate children on the dangers of bullying. He created a fund raiser for a homeless man and raised over 100 thousand dollars for this homeless man and other Veterans (I believe it was Veterans. It was either Veterans or he donated to homeless shelters for Veterans).

And I too would like to know where you've seen anyone on this forum stand up for bullies? I've read pretty much everything that has ever been posted on this forum since Day 1 and I do not recall anyone ever encouraging or standing up for bullying. And if there was someone doing that then I and everyone else must have missed it because no one has ever brought it to my attention. Unless you're referring to Evan Todd? But like I said, he was not the bully, he was the victim. He was the one being bullied with a gun in face after he had already been shot at and injured prior to that.

And more people do than don't have empathy for Dylan and Eric. You need to stop being so one dimensional and understand that it's much more complex than Dylan and Eric were horribly bullied, snapped and killed people. There was much more than that. And while them being picked on may have been a small factor it was not the root of what happened. And asking the same questions a million times isn't going to make anyone come up with the exact answer of why this all happened. Why do you think we're still here 18 years later talking about it?

I'm just very interested in the case as a whole, but I guess we will never really know why they did the things they did. Also, didn't a few girls like Eric and Dylan, but they didn't give them a chance? I thought as far as girls go, they weren't actually that scared to approach them.

Robyn was definitely into Dylan but he only liked her as a friend. He didn't want to go to the prom with her but his parents paid him to go. I don't know if he meant they actually gave him money if he'd go or he meant that they paid for the prom tickets, his tuxedo, flowers, etc. I'm thinking he meant they just paid for him to go to it so that he didn't have to use his own money because going to the prom is really expensive. I went to 3 proms and every time it was well over $200.

As far as we know Dylan never had a girlfriend and aside from the prom, never really went on any dates. Aside from Robyn, we don't know if any girls were actually into him because the ones who claim they had crushes on him never mentioned it until after the shooting and I take anything anyone says after the shooting with a grain of salt.

Eric was interested in a few different girls but most of them turned him down and the one that did go on a few dates with him decided to stop seeing him and he went on to borderline harass her. He did have somewhat of a date on the night of the prom. He had a girl over his house and again, after the shooting, she claimed to have been really interested in and had feelings for him. Again, I take that with a grain of salt.

As for approaching girls they both seemed to be shy and afraid to approach them. Eric approached them a bit more than Dylan did though and if he didn't ask them out himself, he would have a friend do it. With Dylan, he wrote notes to a girl he had a crush on but he never gave her the notes and as far as we know he never talked to or let the girls he liked know that he liked them. We're pretty sure they both died virgins and Dylan probably never even kissed a girl. Eric may have because he did go out on several dates with one girl but who knows? Neither one of them seemed to have any luck with girls.

Ok, I TRIED! Brad. Research. Beginning to end. 11k. Research 1999. Get off the bullying. It wasn't extreme, and likely far more benign than others who DO NOT do stupid shit.

I don't give a RAT'S ASS what Evan Todd said in 1999. Again, I encourage you to research 1999. He didn't bully those things, otherwise he would have been shot. Have you read the 11k? Have you truly researched this, aside from the OMG BULLYING angle? I, and others, encourage you to do so.

The bully angle is tired, exhausting and debunked, as far as the extreme nature you peddle.

THE END...brad I am DONE.

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

The reason Dylan and Eric didn't target any specific people or any specific bullies is because there were none. This was intended to be a bombing. As we know, the bombing failed miserably so they had to improvise. So they took their guns and went to a place that had easy access and a large number of students. They killed whoever they saw. Again, they did not go after any specific targets because there were none.

I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that "bullying" really had nothing to do with this. They wanted to kill everyone in that school, including their own friends. If anything, Dylan's depression and being suicidal was one of the biggest influences over this whole thing. Him wanting to die. And again, him wanting to die had nothing to do with bullying. He did not cry to his journal that he wanted to die because he was bullied and tortured. He actually said in his journal that HE was the one who picked on people, not the other way around. And again, I'm not sure why that is such a hard concept to grab a hold of?

And I'm at the point where I'm gonna start shutting down all this badmouthing of Evan Todd. Evan was a victim, not the perpetrator. Evan was the one who was shot at and injured, threatened, harassed, called a "fat fuck", humiliated and basically had to beg for his life while he had a gun shoved in his face. If this happened to you, would you have nice things to say in an interview afterwards? Evan didn't even know the killers. He never bullied them. What Evan said was that they were bullied because of how they looked and how they acted. And they did it on purpose. The Trench Coat Mafia members even admitted to doing stuff to antagonize the jocks or whoever they were feuding with. Dylan's own Mother said that Dylan intentionally did stuff to get people to look at him and/or be afraid of him. She asked Dylan not to dress with the hat, glasses and trench coat when they went out in public because people looked like they were afraid of him and Dylan just laughed like he enjoyed the negative attention. Dylan was not some innocent kid who was picked on - he was a bully. More than a few girls said they were afraid of him. Dylan was not "tortured on a daily basis". And the same thing goes for Eric. There were girls afraid of him too and girls he harassed because they didn't wanna go out with him.

And Evan Todd has actually gone on to do some really good things as an adult. He's gone to schools to talk to students about his experience at Columbine and to help educate children on the dangers of bullying. He created a fund raiser for a homeless man and raised over 100 thousand dollars for this homeless man and other Veterans (I believe it was Veterans. It was either Veterans or he donated to homeless shelters for Veterans).

And I too would like to know where you've seen anyone on this forum stand up for bullies? I've read pretty much everything that has ever been posted on this forum since Day 1 and I do not recall anyone ever encouraging or standing up for bullying. And if there was someone doing that then I and everyone else must have missed it because no one has ever brought it to my attention. Unless you're referring to Evan Todd? But like I said, he was not the bully, he was the victim. He was the one being bullied with a gun in face after he had already been shot at and injured prior to that.

And more people do than don't have empathy for Dylan and Eric. You need to stop being so one dimensional and understand that it's much more complex than Dylan and Eric were horribly bullied, snapped and killed people. There was much more than that. And while them being picked on may have been a small factor it was not the root of what happened. And asking the same questions a million times isn't going to make anyone come up with the exact answer of why this all happened. Why do you think we're still here 18 years later talking about it?

I'm just very interested in the case as a whole, but I guess we will never really know why they did the things they did. Also, didn't a few girls like Eric and Dylan, but they didn't give them a chance? I thought as far as girls go, they weren't actually that scared to approach them.

Robyn was definitely into Dylan but he only liked her as a friend. He didn't want to go to the prom with her but his parents paid him to go. I don't know if he meant they actually gave him money if he'd go or he meant that they paid for the prom tickets, his tuxedo, flowers, etc. I'm thinking he meant they just paid for him to go to it so that he didn't have to use his own money because going to the prom is really expensive. I went to 3 proms and every time it was well over $200.

As far as we know Dylan never had a girlfriend and aside from the prom, never really went on any dates. Aside from Robyn, we don't know if any girls were actually into him because the ones who claim they had crushes on him never mentioned it until after the shooting and I take anything anyone says after the shooting with a grain of salt.

Eric was interested in a few different girls but most of them turned him down and the one that did go on a few dates with him decided to stop seeing him and he went on to borderline harass her. He did have somewhat of a date on the night of the prom. He had a girl over his house and again, after the shooting, she claimed to have been really interested in and had feelings for him. Again, I take that with a grain of salt.

As for approaching girls they both seemed to be shy and afraid to approach them. Eric approached them a bit more than Dylan did though and if he didn't ask them out himself, he would have a friend do it. With Dylan, he wrote notes to a girl he had a crush on but he never gave her the notes and as far as we know he never talked to or let the girls he liked know that he liked them. We're pretty sure they both died virgins and Dylan probably never even kissed a girl. Eric may have because he did go out on several dates with one girl but who knows? Neither one of them seemed to have any luck with girls.

Why weren't a lot girls interested in them? Were they actually scared of them and was put off how they acted?

Because teenagers are shallow. E&d were even shallow and had standards, which were set higher than where they were on the social ladder. There are topics all over this board that discuss e&d's experience with girls, but here are some examples for you anyway

Both of them weren't popular. Both of them were on the geeky side, dressed like outcasts and listened to angry music that wasn't accepted by the popular kids. They weren't trendy or mainstream, which can be important to teenagers. As already stated, both of them set their standards high by being interested in popular girls (who were also pretty shallow), and we all know that at least in the 90s popular girls usually didn't date geeky outcasts. Both were awkward. They had interests in weapons and explosives which can scare people off. Etc, etc, etc. I'm sure you can find many more examples by browsing this forum. But I'm starting to think no amount of research, and no one here's answers are going to be enough to keep you from asking the same questions over and over and over.

You expect people here to answer your consistent, repetitive questions, but you dodge other people's questions and have refused to explain why you created this thread accusing people here of bully defending (despite having zero examples or evidence), and you've been asked this more than once by more than one person...