Dylan's Behavior during the massacre

Throughout the years many people have labeled Eric the psychopathic mastermind and Dylan as the depressive shy one who was forced into doing this. Obviously People like Dave Cullen and Judy Brown believe this. However if you really trace Dylan's last months and especially that final fateful day Dylan was pretty jacked up about doing this. Sure there was a time when Dylan probably wouldn't have done this with eric no matter how depressed he was. We all know in his journals Dylan had wrote about secret crushed that he had. So many people interpret this as Dylan just being depressed about not being able to be with any of these girl and wanting to die so he chose to go NBK as a last resort. But reading transcripts of the basement tapes and listening to the Patti Nielsen 911 call( as much as was released publicly) I don't think Dylan was this shy depressed reluctant participant. First of Dylan not only help plan this massacre but also helped finance it. Going back to the 911 call you can hear Dylan say some vicious things to people before killing them while Eric is much more stoic. Even Brooks Brown has admitted that Dylan is acting like he is a some kind of party. Now some people will argue that he let John Savage and Evan Todd live but I think he did that for certain reasons. John Savage was obviously someone he knew and liked so it makes sense. But he also told John when John asked him "what are you doing" he replied "oh just killing people" in a very nonchalant way which is pretty scary when you think about it. As for Evan Todd Dylan obviously wanted to bully him and scar him for life IMO. In the end I do agree that Dylan wanted to commit suicide BUT I also believe that he wanted to commit this massacre just as much as Eric. Sorry if I'm starting to ramble but this is a topic ive been wanting to mention for a while. Interested to hear anybody's else's thoughts about Dylan's behavior and his true feelings about the massacre

I completely agree with you. Dylan was just as involved in NBK as Eric. I think the fact that Eric was a planner, and left details of the plan helps fuel the idea that it was ALL his idea, and that Dylan just got swept up in it. But Dylan had wiped his computer's drive, he may have had all sorts of plans and things on there about NBK. No one really knows.

This has actually been discussed in depth on several threads on the forum. If you search for them, a lot of people have given their thoughts and opinions on this very subject.

My opinion is somewhat the same as yours. I do not think Dylan hated killing people or that he did not want to but I do not think he would have done the massacre without *someone* else. Be that Eric or a girl or Zach or whoever.

I think if Dylan was just on his own he would have eventually killed himself or moved on with life. I think Dylan did need that extra little spark to get things going. Perhaps because he was lazy or maybe it was something else.

I have many thoughts on Dylan. They've probably been mentioned before and they're probably not new but when Columbine first happened from what I remember I attributed EVERYTHING to Eric almost. As though Dylan was along for the ride. I was shocked (not sure why because it wasn't  awful, but I was 18,  so I got indignant over a wrong coffee order) of what Dylan was saying the released basement tape clip.

So fast forward over 10 years I start researching Columbine again and read "A Mother's Reckoning" and I feel like Dylan had a lot of anger bubbling underneath him. To most people he was very sweet and gentle, then on the other hand you have the reports of him treating Adam Kyler and girls in his gym class pretty horribly. You can tell in the RNN how uncomfortable he is but he tries to take it in stride. I'm not a doctor but after even reading his journals I wouldn't be surprised if he had a break from reality or if there was more going on than just depression. Also St. Johns Wort can cause some sort of psychosis in rare cases. I'm not saying he wasn't a participant willingly but while Eric seemed a bit more open about his anger and wanting help (whether that was in earnest or not) Dylan was VERY self sufficient (in his mind)

Also Eric and his love for foreshadowing and Dylan's penchant for theatricality, their shirts and the way they were acting were pretty fore boding. Dylan was Wrath personified and shed himself of his quiet awkwardness and become a terror and Eric was more calculating.

I would have loved to have known what was on that damn hard drive. Some speculate it was NBK related, some say it was probably just a lot of porn. Maybe a little of both. Dylan wrote about how horrified he was that he made fun of people and the masturbating/porn. His tastes were so tame too, even the videos he and Eric watched were tame. They weren't around for 2 Girls 1 Cup. Do NOT google if you don't want to be grossed out completely, for those too young to know about it. I've never seen it but there was a skit on Inside Amy Schumer that pretty much gave the gist of it. BLECH.

There have been people who matched up Dylan's writings to Erics to see whose "idea" it was. Dylan wrote about NBK before Eric but who knows that they talked about beforehand? Dylan didn't have a "journal' just wrote on random slips of paper.

The weight loss, the highs and lows, cutting, his writings while sometimes very poetic had some delusions of grandeur while Eric seemed like he was writing for an audience. We were supposed to get amped up with him, his whole "We. have. GUNS!" as thought his audience was supposed to cheer after and go "YAY! REB!"

I find it even more telling after the library the 2 of them wandered around the school without shooting anyone. Looked into windows of classrooms but that's about it.

Dylan was a great manipulator. He hid his feelings pretty well. Eric looked up on him, which is why he acted like him most of the times (Smoking, wearing a duster coat, etc.). Yes, Eric did most of the plannings, but it Dylan's original idea to go on a killing spree with his mystery girl. Dylan's hiding skills were better, as Eric's dad found Eric's pipe bombs and his alcohol collection was also revealed. They both wiped their hard drives, so we will never know Dylan's part in the planning.

Dylan wanted to kill just like Eric, probably even more than him. His outbursts of anger on the day of the massacre confirm it all.

From their own words (Basement Tapes):

Harris: You guys will all die, and it will be fucking soon! I hope you get an idea of what we’re implying here. You all need to die! We need to die, too! We need to fucking kick-start the revolution here!

Klebold: The most deaths in U.S. history.

Harris: [kisses his shotgun] Hopefully.

Klebold: We’re hoping. We’re hoping. I hope we kill 250 of you. It will be the most nerve racking 15 minutes of my life, after the bombs are set and we’re waiting to charge through the school. Seconds will be like hours. I can’t wait. I’ll be shaking like a leaf.

I cannot express enough after reading the basement tapes transcripts how much I want to see them. I can't picture Dylan saying any of that...even when they were acting in Hitmen for Hire I couldn't take him seriously. It's just so bizarre to me. I also can't picture Eric in his car filming himself near tears.

EDIT: not to say that I don't believe he had an equal part in planning and executing NBK. I know he is just as much to blame. I honestly look at both of them as goofy teenagers in the footage we have of them, and it's weird to try and picture the people described in TBT.

Littlelo wrote:

I cannot express enough after reading the basement tapes transcripts how much I want to see them. I can't picture Dylan saying any of that...even when they were acting in Hitmen for Hire I couldn't take him seriously. It's just so bizarre to me. I also can't picture Eric in his car filming himself near tears.

EDIT: not to say that I don't believe he had an equal part in planning and executing NBK. I know he is just as much to blame. I honestly look at both of them as goofy teenagers in the footage we have of them, and it's weird to try and picture the people described in TBT.

That is also why I want to see the basement tapes. I want to see with my own eyes how they acted around each other, how they played off the others emotions, etc.

Even in the leaked BT clip he didn't sound horrible. More irritated at the prosthelytizing and loud people in class "You're ungrateful" he states.

It is hard for me to picture the the tapes look like, how they interacted with each other... Hopefully one day something is leaked OR maybe Randy Brown has it in his war room? Just waiting for the right time to leak them all. :/


It's also sometimes hard for me to picture Dylan talking like that, then you hear him on the 911 call, but then you see him in the car with Nate going to school and he looks like someone you'd be friends with or at least smile at if you saw him.

Screamingophelia wrote:

It's also sometimes hard for me to picture Dylan talking like that, then you hear him on the 911 call, but then you see him in the car with Nate going to school and he looks like someone you'd be friends with or at least smile at if you saw him.

That's how I feel too Dylan is a prime example of hurt people hurt people... not to sound cliche.

It was totally all an act to hide how suicidal he was from his master and gay lover Eric.

it seemed like they did not want to kill, either one of them. Or more like they did not want to kill everybody, just a few. Eric and Dylan leading up to it and seen in the basement tapes and what not seemed like they were mad and wanted to cause as much chaos as possible. But in the massacre they did not even kill everybody they encountered. Maybe they were disillusioned after the bombing failed.But they had a chance to kill so much more, yet they did not. Maybe they wanted to be like Roof and leave people behind to discuss the event. But at the same time they planned on killing 100s and destroying the whole school. I feel that E/D were just angry at not having power and thats what they wanted, not necessarily to kill. If they wanted to hurt as many as they could, they would of killed as many people as possible like Lanza, Cho, Breivik, and Lahouaiej-Bouhlel.

All in all i feel that Dylan was a depressed kid who was not treated as well as he would of liked. Eric may of had other problems relating to his mental health but he still had feelings of anger and resentment towards others. If he truly hated the world and wanted to kill as any as possible, he would of killed everyone he saw, which is not the case. It also explains how they started destroying shit at the library, sort of like how randy stair shot 60~ shots at various things in the store

Roof was well after E&D.

They did want people to have nightmares and write movies about them. They weren't very accurate with their firearms, Dylan was very haphazard and careless with his (loading his gun with it pointed right at his stomach)

I think they needed each other to make the massacre happen and when the bombs didn't go off and then Eric broke his nose they came back down to earth so to speak. Eric killed himself right away and Dylan shortly thereafter (I've never read a concrete answer about the jewelry thing, if Dylan took off his jewelry then killed himsef?)

Screamingophelia wrote:

Roof was well after E&D.

yeah i know, i was just saying how E/D could of also wanted people to witness it and live to tell

Eric and Dylan passed up rooms, actually making eye contact with people and just went on by.

Maybe they were just done, maybe they finally came down from the adrenalin high and realized what they had did. But its a fact that they could have killed many more, they had ample time and plenty of targets. But why they stopped killing is anyone's guess.

They also had plenty of ammo left and I THINK more bombs (pipe bombs and Co2)?

You never know if the gravity of the whole situation hit them too. The cops weren't bursting into school to stop them so they went back in, shot at the cops a few times more and killed themselves. Did they pick the library because that was the best tactical place to shoot at the cops and maybe get shot by them? Eric really wanted to get killed by cops, Dylan really wanted to die. That's heart breaking in it of itself, if Dylan didn't commit the massacre with Eric, he wanted to die SO bad. Living like that everyday, just waiting to die... going through the motions.

So how many people could they have both killed with the weapons and ammo they had left before the cops raided the school and killed them?

Since this thread is about Dylan's behavior on 4-20-99, does anyone else find it odd that he reportedly grabbed and tried to pull Isaiah out from under the table? I ask that because I can't think of another incident that day where they grabbed or touched their victims in any way. I always wondered about that.

Was Isaiah shorter than the other guys he killed? Maybe he looked slight and Dylan thought he could scare him even more? OR he could have had an issue with him, he may have been someone who gave him a hard time, was he wearing something that indicated he was on the football team? Or maybe Dylan wanted to be really cruel before killing someone. He was acting like he was in a movie.

Obviously that doesn't mean he should have died.

Isaiah was black, and apparently, one of the shooters called him 'nigger' before shooting him.

That was Dylan.

There was nothing to indicate that he was racist or anything like that before, plus as Littlelo mentioned he grabbed Isaiah and he didn't touch any of his other victims. Dylan is also the one who wanted to knife people.

The media is a powerful thing because Dylan is still pretty well known as the sweet but depressed kid to those who don't research.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Wasn't there also conflicting reports of Eric supposedly grabbing Rachel by her hair?

Being pulled out from under the table sounds absolutely terrifying.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Wasn't there also conflicting reports of Eric supposedly grabbing Rachel by her hair?

wasnt that where the whole Rachel Scott movie thing came from. Where she was grabbed and asked if she believed in god. Bu ti believe she was shot from a few feet away and then shot a point blank. I dont think there is any evidence of the interaction though

I believe it was. I agree with you, I have found nothing to suggest that Eric had actually gotten close enough to have touched her by hand.

The first time I heard about Rachel getting grabbed by Eric was in the movie. Before that it didn't sound like the evidence suggested it. How would they have time for a whole dialogue, the bombs were going to go off...

Or did they go inside when the bombs didn't go off?

Screamingophelia wrote:

The first time I heard about Rachel getting grabbed by Eric was in the movie. Before that it didn't sound like the evidence suggested it. How would they have time for a whole dialogue, the bombs were going to go off...

Or did they go inside when the bombs didn't go off?

they didnt have time for a whole dialogue, the movie lies

They scheduled everything down to the minute. Hence why Brooks was told to leave. The movie does lie.

I don't think he grabbed Isaiah because of his size. There were other smaller kids in the library at the time, so I can't imagine it was because Dylan thought he could overpower him. I also can't imagine Isaiah was the only one to try to back away or move with a gun pointed at him. Even John Savage said he ducked away when Eric aimed at him, right before he was asked to identify himself.

Littlelo wrote:

I don't think he grabbed Isaiah because of his size. There were other smaller kids in the library at the time, so I can't imagine it was because Dylan thought he could overpower him. I also can't imagine Isaiah was the only one to try to back away or move with a gun pointed at him. Even John Savage said he ducked away when Eric aimed at him, right before he was asked to identify himself.

I actually have conflicting views on this one.  While I don't really think Eric or Dylan were truly racist, you can't deny they did in fact say very racial things at times..

But I mainly think Isaiah was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was also a jock who just happened to be one of the few black people who attended Columbine.

Now the question get really hard as to if Dylan singled him out because he was black or because he was a jock? Hell maybe it was a combination of both. Another question would be if Eric would have noticed or killed Isaiah if Dylan hadn't brought him to his attention?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I actually have conflicting views on this one.  While I don't really think Eric or Dylan were truly raciest, you can't deny they did in fact say very racial things at times..

They could of said it because it would piss even more people off

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Part of me does think it was a combination of both his race and him being a jock. I just look at their "selection" of students at random, so it's hard to even say that. But many people heard him use a racial slur, so that must have played a role in some way.

Littlelo wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Part of me does think it was a combination of both his race and him being a jock. I just look at their "selection" of students at random, so it's hard to even say that. But many people heard him use a racial slur, so that must have played a role in some way.

Maybe, but at the same time they wanted to cause as much hurt and suffering as possible, and using slurs is another way to do that

-warrior wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Part of me does think it was a combination of both his race and him being a jock. I just look at their "selection" of students at random, so it's hard to even say that. But many people heard him use a racial slur, so that must have played a role in some way.

Maybe, but at the same time they wanted to cause as much hurt and suffering as possible, and using slurs is another way to do that

Very true. It must have been the one word he knew would be most hurtful to Isaiah as a person. So terrible to think about.

Littlelo wrote:

Very true. It must have been the one word he knew would be most hurtful to Isaiah as a person. So terrible to think about.

I agree. Very sad to think what those kids saw, heard, and were taunted by before they were killed.

In Zero Hour, Brooks claims that Eric was relatively quiet compared to Dylan in the library, citing the 911 call. But was that really the case? The full tape has never been released and even witnesses in the library may not have been able to tell who was saying/yelling what. I know Eric was the one who yelled "Get up!" when they entered. I also know Brooks is famous for embellishing things.

With all the noise in the library it would have been hard to determine who was saying/yelling anything. The witness reports are not very reliable for that very reason. But I would still love to hear the full call.

The guys in their group threw around racial epithets and fag a LOT. My father wasn't racist but him and his friends had a good friend since middle school that they called "chink" ALL their lives.. and he didn't care.

I'm pretty sure one of Rachel Scott's nicknames was "dirty, dirty whore" from one of her best girlfriends. I have to go back and look at Rachel's Tears.

I agree it was probably a mix of him being a jock and black. Dylan wanted to spread as much hate and nastiness as he could that day. He had so much building up inside him. Wrong place, wrong time indeed.

As far as Eric goes, he may have? Did Eric kill anyone after Cassie? I'm trying to think of the order. Or was it all Dylan?

Eric yelled Get up and then you can CLEARLY, and I'm partially deaf and even on crappy headphones I can hear Dylan scream "Everybody Get up NOW!" I don't hear the whole "you're all mine" I hear his scary ass laugh though. I don't hear him tell Val to quit your damn bitching. Eric going Woo Hoo! I hear.

It has got to haunt survivors to this day, and to hear those things before you die...

I sometimes wonder too why they went to back to the library to kill themselves too. I've heard a lot of speculation and analysis. Not sure what I believe, only E&D know.

I agree, you can clearly hear him yell "Get up!" And then repeat himself. But so much of the transcripts are incorrect or pure speculation. I think people hear what they want or expect to hear.

I often wonder if they returned to the library because they wanted to engage and die by police fire. They at least accepted that it was a possibility. I'm sure they were both super confused as to why no one had entered the school and tried to stop them.

They did talk about dying by police gun fire. I think they were picturing the school blowing up and then the 2 of them being riddled with bullets while flames roared behind them.

I've always been interested in learning more about the witnesses who heard one of them say "are you still with me?"

I wonder how much info Lisa K remembers?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I have thought about that too! I wonder if it was actually said and if so, who said it.

While this doesn't have to do with their behavior, I also wonder if the coughing sound Patrick Ireland reportedly heard was Dylan. He said it sounded like a male and the only other victim still alive (that we know of) in the library was Lisa.

I always thought the coughing was Dylan. He was alive for about 5 minutes or so, depending on how long Patrick said he heard coughing. Dylan had blood in his lungs. I'm not sure if he was brain dead or suffered. As much as it pains me to say this because I have empathy for Dylan and especially Sue and his family. If Dylan suffered a bit, oh well. After what he did... I feel like a monster typing that. (Edited, I read up a little more and he was most likely brain dead)

I'm trying to remember WHEN they heard it too. Was it right before they went into the library?

Someone who is more versed in the time line can probably help

I could have swore there was a REALLY good timeline of both 4/19 and 4/20 on this very forum!

Screamingophelia wrote:

I always thought the coughing was Dylan. He was alive for about 5 minutes or so, depending on how long Patrick said he heard coughing. Dylan had blood in his lungs. I'm not sure if he was brain dead or suffered. As much as it pains me to say this because I have empathy for Dylan and especially Sue and his family. If Dylan suffered a bit, oh well. After what he did... I feel like a monster typing that. (Edited, I read up a little more and he was most likely brain dead)

I'm trying to remember WHEN they heard it too. Was it right before they went into the library?

Someone who is more versed in the time line can probably help

I could have swore there was a REALLY good timeline of both 4/19 and 4/20 on this very forum!

is your question about when the coughing occurred? If so Patrick stated he heard it while he was lying on the floor after the shooting and prior to crawling out. Depending on the timeline which of course Patrick cannot be clear on, it could very well have been Dylan or another victim perhaps.

We used to have a medical examiner here. Her opinion was that if Dylan was coughing or even moving it was not a conscious effort. She thought it was more his body's reaction. Most likely he was still alive but not awake or alert.

I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was referring to someone hearing "are you still with me?". Not sure when that was reportedly overheard, but I'd be interested to know.

Also, I can definitely believe the ME's assessment that it was just a reaction from Dylan. I am in no way a medical professional, but you have to believe that with a point-blank GSW to the head, he could not have been too aware of anything.

I was yes! I wanted to know around what time someone heard them say are you still with me?

I think it was a girl who reportedly heard them say it upon entering the library. I want to say it may have been Lisa Kreutz, but I'm not sure.

Thanks! Was it the first time they entered the library or the second time?

I'm really curious about when Dylan (or both of them) died exactly. I know the accepted time is 12.08pm. But the only living witnesses in the library at the time (that weren't severely wounded), the 3 woman hiding out the back said they heard a burst of gunfire much later than that and the group of two women assumed the killers had found Patti Neilson and killed her. Patti assumed that the two women had been found and shot. By their accounts this burst of gunfire seems to have come at least an hour later than the 12.08 time.
Why is 12.08 the time of death? If E and D did die at 12.08 then what was this burst of gunfire that all 3 women reported much later?
Does anyone think maybe E and D, or maybe even just Dylan, were alive in the library for longer?

I also think that Dylan was just better at hiding his feelings of rage better than Eric. Dylan's tshirt for NBK didn't say 'sadness' or anything along those lines. It said Wrath. His writings to me seem quite selfish, really. I don't see the romance that others seem to see.

I'm sorry this post is all over the place but the other thing I wanted to add is I think Dylan's revenge in the commons for 'January's 'incident' may have been the tomato sauce/tampon abuse at the school. I often wonder if this was the trigger point for the killings and why they wanted to blow up the commons/school and kill everyone. That sort of public humiliation must have been torment.

Dylan's behaviour on the day seemed to surprise everyone that knew him but like an ex husband I have I just think that no-one actually really knew the Dylan he was behind his mask.

As far as his love letter/suicide note. There's been discussion on how sweet it was and how honored someone would be to get it. Imagine if you're 16/17 and you get a note from someone you don't know saying "If you love me back, I may not kill myself" that would terrify you. It seems like if you knew Dylan, he was sweet, kind and funny. Though if you didn't he could be off putting and intimidating. Dylan was far scarier than Eric in many ways. People expected Eric was a hot head, they expected that he was going to lash out. Dylan was more of a slow burn.

I took the January incident and revenge in the commons as two different things. The van and the ketchup.

I honestly haven't heard of the gunfire that was heard later. I was always under the impression that Patti ended up in the room with the other library workers after Eric and Dylan left the library. Then they came back in, fired at cops and killed themselves. Then Patrick Ireland heard coughs.

We know Eric died first because Dylan's blood and brain were found on his leg. Plus didn't Dylan light a molotov cocktail?