Junior year

Sasha Jacobs pages 013253-013255

Sasha and Eric went to the movies multiple times and also she had dinner at his place.

Munchinphone I would assume that is 'dating' So Sasha was Eric's girlfriend. She was never Dylan's girlfriend.

I don't think Dylan and Sasha actually dated.

If you say that hanging out all the time is dating then Robyn and Dylan were dating, but we know they weren't.

You know with guys in their late 20's and even in their 30's NOW it is still hard for them to "label" stuff. Let alone teenagers back then.

I have an ex who claims we never dated... yes, for 6 months, meeting your family, having dinners at your house, going to plays... no, not dating at all. Sighs.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Munchinphone I would assume that is 'dating' So Sasha was Eric's girlfriend. She was never Dylan's girlfriend.

I don't think Dylan and Sasha actually dated.

If you say that hanging out all the time is dating then Robyn and Dylan were dating, but we know they weren't.

You know with guys in their late 20's and even in their 30's NOW it is still hard for them to "label" stuff. Let alone teenagers back then.

I have an ex who claims we never dated... yes, for 6 months, meeting your family, having dinners at your house, going to plays... no, not dating at all. Sighs.

What a bastard! Um yeah you most certainly WAS dating. Six months is a LONG time and would be deemed as dating by anyone's standards.

Marla Foust claims Dylan asked her to the prom but she was already going with someone. But I thought Dylan had to be coerced into going by Robyn?

Also, Marla says she would have gone with him if she didn't already have a date. I wonder what would have happened under this circumstances.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Munchinphone I would assume that is 'dating' So Sasha was Eric's girlfriend. She was never Dylan's girlfriend.

I don't think Dylan and Sasha actually dated.

If you say that hanging out all the time is dating then Robyn and Dylan were dating, but we know they weren't.

You know with guys in their late 20's and even in their 30's NOW it is still hard for them to "label" stuff. Let alone teenagers back then.

I have an ex who claims we never dated... yes, for 6 months, meeting your family, having dinners at your house, going to plays... no, not dating at all. Sighs.

What a bastard!   Um yeah you most certainly WAS dating. Six months is a LONG time and would be deemed as dating by anyone's standards.

Dang right!

I have no patience anymore for BS.

Littlelo wrote:

Also, Marla says she would have gone with him if she didn't already have a date. I wonder what would have happened under this circumstances.

Nothing would have changed. NBK was just days away. Dylan was in it for the long haul.

Was there a Junior Prom in 1998? I don't remember hearing about that.

Littlelo wrote:

Marla Foust claims Dylan asked her to the prom but she was already going with someone. But I thought Dylan had to be coerced into going by Robyn?

Also, Marla says she would have gone with him if she didn't already have a date. I wonder what would have happened under this circumstances.

I always got the vibe Dylan was coerced by Robyn. What if Marlas date fell through and she went to Dylan and said "do you still want to go with me?"

Rumor has it that Marla was one of the ones in his love poem.

That's saying that "love" could have cured Dylan of ALL his issues... if only it was that easy.

Littlelo wrote:

Was there a Junior Prom in 1998? I don't remember hearing about that.

There was. I think the boys only went to the afterparty though....and I could be misremembering

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Do you think Eric was already a bit fucked up when he dated Tiffany Typher?

I do. I think he must've developed sociopathic tendencies even before high school.

But Tiffany does not seem to dislike Eric in the Eric in school video and he seems to be quite nice to her. Why doesn't he treat Sasha the same way?

It's so hard to say when Eric could have developed those tendencies, because we don't have an account of his childhood like we do of Dylan's. The only people who talk about Eric are those that knew him from high school. Although friends that knew him from other schools while he was moving around all said he was nice and that CO is what changed him.

Well Tiffany was the one Eric faked death for....so he was already a bit screw then imo

Lizpuff wrote:

Well Tiffany was the one Eric faked death for....so he was already a bit screw then imo

While I somewhat agree that faking his death was a wee bit over the top, I still can't help but think it was funny.

I forgot about that [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Definitely a messed up thing to do...

His smile seems strained in the picture, Tiffany's dress if very 90's but very cute.

I don't think I have ever heard of a teenager faking a suicide for a girl, he did that with Brooks right?

It's interesting because Eric's change seemed to happen when he moved to CO and Dylans mom had talked about how they were thinking of moving to California. We would never know because we wouldn't know of E & D like we do now, but it makes you wonder if they would have thrived if they had moved. Like we'd know of Dylan because he developed a software system we use everyday or maybe Eric would have created a video game?

Screamingophelia wrote:

His smile seems strained in the picture, Tiffany's dress if very 90's but very cute.

I don't think I have ever heard of a teenager faking a suicide for a girl, he did that with Brooks right?

It's interesting because Eric's change seemed to happen when he moved to CO and Dylans mom had talked about how they were thinking of moving to California. We would never know because we wouldn't know of E & D like we do now, but it makes you wonder if they would have thrived if they had moved. Like we'd know of Dylan because he developed a software system we use everyday or maybe Eric would have created a video game?

Well most smiles are forced when you have parents taking pictures of you before a date/dance. I have some truly horrible ones from back in the day!

Lizpuff wrote:

Well Tiffany was the one Eric faked death for....so he was already a bit screw then imo

I am fascinated by this situation in relation to something Eric wrote for school later on.

Apparently, Eric was supposed to pick a quote from the book A Prayer For Own Meany and write about it. What interests me is that Eric wrote out one quote, then crossed it out and wrote about a second quote with a very different tone. Here is the piece of writing (26171).
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The original quote "You let me die!" is something that Owen Meany says after he fakes his own death. He is swimming with a group of friends and pretends to drown. He hides and watches what they do when they realize he "has drowned" and gets angry because his peers do nothing at all.

A Prayer For Owen Meany wrote:

No one called his name; no one dove in to look for him. In that water, no one could see! I prefer to believe that we would have gone in to look for him—if he’d given us just a few more seconds to gather up our nerve—but Owen decided that our response was altogether too slow and uncaring. He swam out from the crevice at the opposite shore; he moved as lightly as a water bug across the terrifying hole that reached, we were sure, to the bottom of the earth. He swam to us, angrier than we’d ever seen him.

"TALK ABOUT HURTING SOMEONE'S FEELINGS!" he cried. "WHAT WERE YOU WAITING FOR? BUBBLES? DO YOU THINK I'M A FISH! WASN'T ANYONE GOING TO TRY TO FIND ME?"

"You scared us, Owen," one of us said. We were too scared to defend ourselves, if there was any defending ourselves -ever- in regard to Owen.

"YOU LET ME DROWN!" Owen said. "YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING! YOU JUST WATCHED ME DROWN! I'M ALREADY DEAD!" he told us. "REMEMBER THAT: YOU LET ME DIE."

And this is what happened in the situation Eric wrote about instead. For context, the narrator's mother had just been killed when she was smacked in the head by a baseball hit by Owen.

A Prayer For Owen Meany wrote:

Later, I would remember everything. In revisiting the scene of my mother’s death, I can remember everyone who was in the stands that day; I remember who wasn’t there, too—and what everyone said, and didn’t say, to me. But the first visit to that scene was very bare of details. I remember Chief Pike, our Gravesend chief of police—in later years, I would date his daughter. Chief Pike got my attention only because of what a ridiculous question he asked—and how much more absurd was his elaboration on his question!

“Where’s the ball?” the police chief asked—after the area had been cleared, as they say. My mother’s body was gone and I was sitting on the bench in Mr. Chickering’s lap, his warm-up jacket still over my head—now, because I liked it that way: because I had put it there.

“The ball?” Mr. Chickering said. “You want the fucking ball?”

“Well, it’s the murder weapon, kind of,” Chief Pike said. His Christian name was Ben. “The instrument of death, I guess you’d call it,” Ben Pike said.

“The murder weapon!” Mr. Chickering said, squeezing me as he spoke. We were waiting for either my grandmother or my mother’s new husband to come get me. “The instrument of death!” Mr. Chickering said. “Jesus Christ, Ben—it was a baseball!”

“Well, where is it?” Chief Pike said. “If it killed somebody, I’m supposed to see it—actually, I’m supposed to possess it.”

“Don’t be an asshole, Ben,” Mr. Chickering said.

“Did one of your kids take it?” Chief Pike asked our fat coach and manager.

“Ask them—don’t ask me!” Mr. Chickering said.

I would love to know what Eric planned to write about the original quote. Did he pick that quote because it was something he could relate to and then change his mind because he realized it was too personal? Did he feel that it would make him look weak?

He first chose a quote where Owen was being vulnerable and was deeply hurt and angry that his friends seemed to just give up on him as though they didn't care if he lived or died. Then he changed the quote to something about power and control and being the one person who who was the voice of reason when the cop who was supposed to take charge was acting like an idiot. That is much more reminiscent of the Eric Harris that he liked to present to the world. In the context of so many people's suspicions that Eric was often acting in his journal (and in real life) and putting on a macho front because he preferred not to be perceived as weak or show his vulnerability, I believe that this is a noteworthy piece of writing.

And just to add to that, if Eric was going to pick that quote because he related to it, it's possible that he did not fake his own death just to "punish" or upset Tiffany but also because he was trying to figure out whether she cared about him at all. Maybe Eric's behavior was motivated by insecurity rather than malice.

Of course, there could be another interpretation, which is that Eric was going to pick this quote and changed his mind because his faked death was malicious and at first he thought it would have been a funny story to share but then realized that he didn't want to share that with people because it didn't make him look good.

I guess the truth is that it could go either way but I still think that the contrast between the quote he was going to choose and the quote he actually chose might be meaningful.

This is a witness account from Eric's girlfriend (Dec 1995 - Feb 1996). It seems to match up with what we know about Eric's personality later on, but some of it seems even more extreme than an older Eric (planning his mother's assassination? ). She does note that he seemed to have calmed down when she saw him randomly in 1998. If it's all true, it sounds to me like he was inspired by the Oklahoma City bombing back when he was 14 years old. They started dating about eight months after it happened. It also shows that he had an interest in Hitler for a long time. 

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Maybe Eric's personality didn't really change very much but he just grew bolder and started trying to intimidate people with his appearance and behavior in the middle of his junior year as a way to cope with the bullying from people in the senior class? The girlfriend said he was kind of "geekish" back in 95/96 but he was already obsessed with violence and explosives and was thinking of doing something terrible in order to become "infamous."

(Sigh. I have been looking at Columbine information for over a year and a half now (which actually isn't very long at all in the world of Columbine research but is certainly more than enough time to read everything in the police investigation!) and I have still not read through all of the information. I think I'm going to have to go back to the beginning and read through every page at this point. I've already started doing that so many times but I always get distracted by some detail and begin skipping around instead.)

sscc wrote:

This is a witness account from Eric's girlfriend (Dec 1995 - Feb 1996). It seems to match up with what we know about Eric's personality later on, but some of it seems even more extreme than an older Eric (planning his mother's assassination? ). She does note that he seemed to have calmed down when she saw him randomly in 1998. If it's all true, it sounds to me like he was inspired by the Oklahoma City bombing back when he was 14 years old. They started dating about eight months after it happened. It also shows that he had an interest in Hitler for a long time. 

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Maybe Eric's personality didn't really change very much but he just grew bolder and started trying to intimidate people with his appearance and behavior in the middle of his junior year as a way to cope with the bullying from people in the senior class? The girlfriend said he was kind of "geekish" back in 95/96 but he was already obsessed with violence and explosives and was thinking of doing something terrible in order to become "infamous."

(Sigh. I have been looking at Columbine information for over a year and a half now (which actually isn't very long at all in the world of Columbine research but is certainly more than enough time to read everything in the police investigation!) and I have still not read through all of the information. I think I'm going to have to go back to the beginning and read through every page at this point. I've already started doing that so many times but I always get distracted by some detail and begin skipping around instead.)

It's possible she may have embellished a little (e.g. Nazi cult meetings?) or that Eric was trying to show off or appear tough/edgy, but this does show that things started well before junior year for him, if what she is saying is true.

Now why would Momma's boy Eric want to kill his Mother?   I don't know why, but I just have always gotten that vibe. That he was closer to his mom then to his dad.

I agree that if true this would indeed prove that things were already on a downward slope before Junior year. But the bigger question is how much is fact and how much is that girl's made up fiction?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Now why would Momma's boy Eric want to kill his Mother?   I don't know why, but I just have always gotten that vibe. That he was closer to his mom then to his dad.

I agree that if true this would indeed prove that things were already on a downward slope before Junior year. But the bigger question is how much is fact and how much is that girl's made up fiction?

That made me take pause as well. Maybe he was mad at his mom one day and said something in passing.

Eric does like to be edgy, I only hear these accounts of "scary Eric" when he was in Colorado, none of his other friends before talk about him like that. I would love to find the soccer video again,his friends from NY talk about him fondly. I saw it YEARS ago, I think it is floating around on youtube, it's part of a larger report.

Sometimes the accounts I read do seem exaggerated, I still maintain the opinion some of the Adam Kyler stuff is overblown. I think Dylan was an asshole to him and probably other people, and I will find it I PROMISE, but there were also stories of Adam saying Dylan walked around with swatzikas on his face.. and I don't believe that. I think his friends probably would be like "dude, get that off of your face" it doesn't make sense. If it was that bad I don't know why his parents were not notified, and I find that interesting that Dylan and Eric complained about the jocks getting away with stuff but Dylan threatened a kids life and he didn't get in any trouble.

sscc wrote:

And just to add to that, if Eric was going to pick that quote because he related to it, it's possible that he did not fake his own death just to "punish" or upset Tiffany but also because he was trying to figure out whether she cared about him at all. Maybe Eric's behavior was motivated by insecurity rather than malice.

Of course, there could be another interpretation, which is that Eric was going to pick this quote and changed his mind because his faked death was malicious and at first he thought it would have been a funny story to share but then realized that he didn't want to share that with people because it didn't make him look good.

I guess the truth is that it could go either way but I still think that the contrast between the quote he was going to choose and the quote he actually chose might be meaningful.

I don't think he meant it as malicious, I think Brooks helped him with it too. He probably wanted to be funny, but a reason behind that was probably to see if she would care. I bet it was insecurity.

I never noticed that he crossed the quote out!

I think this is the same class where Dylan and Brooks wrote the funny story based on A Prayer of Owen Meany.

Eric still struck me as kind of geeky in the "Eric in Columbine" video. there's nothing wrong with that though!

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Now why would Momma's boy Eric want to kill his Mother?   I don't know why, but I just have always gotten that vibe. That he was closer to his mom then to his dad.

I agree that if true this would indeed prove that things were already on a downward slope before Junior year. But the bigger question is how much is fact and how much is that girl's made up fiction?

That made me take pause as well. Maybe he was mad at his mom one day and said something in passing.

Eric does like to be edgy, I only hear these accounts of "scary Eric" when he was in Colorado, none of his other friends before talk about him like that. I would love to find the soccer video again,his friends from NY talk about him fondly. I saw it YEARS ago, I think it is floating around on youtube, it's part of a larger report.

Sometimes the accounts I read do seem exaggerated, I still maintain the opinion some of the Adam Kyler stuff is overblown. I think Dylan was an asshole to him and probably other people, and I will find it I PROMISE, but there were also stories of Adam saying Dylan walked around with swatzikas on his face.. and I don't believe that. I think his friends probably would be like "dude, get that off of your face" it doesn't make sense. If it was that bad I don't know why his parents were not notified, and I find that interesting that Dylan and Eric complained about the jocks getting away with stuff but Dylan  threatened a kids life and he didn't get in any trouble.

The thing with Adam is that he is disabled. He does seem to exaggerate. He exaggerated his injuries on the day of the massacre as well. I do believe he was probably teased by many kids at that school but I wish there were other accounts of the bullying to either back up what Adam said or give us a different out look

I really struggle with the witness reports. We all know how inconsistent some were. You had kids scared out of their minds in a loud chaotic mess.  It is hard to tell if someone was embellishing their story, adding in something that they had overheard someone else say but didn't necessarily see it themselves etc. Or if some just wanted to appear to have a bigger roll in what happened.

Although I do feel some truly thought they saw, and heard the things they reported. They didn't fabricate anything but still some of the things they said were off, or debunked at some point. Like the reports of several different shooters in different places that we know E&D hadn't been. The conspiracy theorists are still going on about that. But it's well known that during stressed out, life and death situations people can remember things wrong, backwards, out of order etc. Those reports must have been a real nightmare for Jeffco to go through trying to piece everything together.

But no one really knows what happened to each kid in that school. Hell one could say that Dylan and Eric played patty cake in the hallways and while it is highly unlikely, we really can't say for a FACT they didn't.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I really struggle with the witness reports. We all know how inconsistent some were. You had kids scared out of their minds in a loud chaotic mess.  It is hard to tell if someone was embellishing their story, adding in something that they had overheard someone else say but didn't necessarily see it themselves etc. Or if some just wanted to appear to have a bigger roll in what happened.

Although I do feel some truly thought they saw, and heard the things they reported. They didn't fabricate anything but still some of the things they said were off, or debunked at some point. Like the reports of several different shooters in different places that we know E&D hadn't been. The conspiracy theorists are still going on about that. But it's well known that during stressed out, life and death situations people can remember things wrong, backwards, out of order etc. Those reports must have been a real nightmare for Jeffco to go through trying to piece everything together.

But no one really knows what happened to each kid in that school. Hell one could say that Dylan and Eric played patty cake in the hallways and while it is highly unlikely, we really can't say for a FACT they didn't.

I agree and speaking of that, was Val's table near Cassie's. Or were they sitting together? Val was with Lauren.

I ask because you mentioned the witness statements debunked and I am wondering if that is how the myth of Cassie being asked if she believed in God started?

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Now why would Momma's boy Eric want to kill his Mother?   I don't know why, but I just have always gotten that vibe. That he was closer to his mom then to his dad.

I agree that if true this would indeed prove that things were already on a downward slope before Junior year. But the bigger question is how much is fact and how much is that girl's made up fiction?

That made me take pause as well. Maybe he was mad at his mom one day and said something in passing.

Eric does like to be edgy, I only hear these accounts of "scary Eric" when he was in Colorado, none of his other friends before talk about him like that. I would love to find the soccer video again,his friends from NY talk about him fondly. I saw it YEARS ago, I think it is floating around on youtube, it's part of a larger report.

Sometimes the accounts I read do seem exaggerated, I still maintain the opinion some of the Adam Kyler stuff is overblown. I think Dylan was an asshole to him and probably other people, and I will find it I PROMISE, but there were also stories of Adam saying Dylan walked around with swatzikas on his face.. and I don't believe that. I think his friends probably would be like "dude, get that off of your face" it doesn't make sense. If it was that bad I don't know why his parents were not notified, and I find that interesting that Dylan and Eric complained about the jocks getting away with stuff but Dylan  threatened a kids life and he didn't get in any trouble.

The thing with Adam is that he is disabled.  He does seem to exaggerate.  He exaggerated his injuries on the day of the massacre as well.  I do believe he was probably teased by many kids at that school but I wish there were other accounts of the bullying to either back up what Adam said or give us a different out look

As do I. Sue mentions it VERY briefly. Something to the affect of "there were people said Dylan bullied other kids too and that is something that happens, they're known as bully victims" I turned pretty nasty to people towards the end of HS, I was bullied so much so everyone was a jerk and I'd be mean to them and then cry in the bathroom.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I agree and speaking of that, was Val's table near Cassie's. Or were they sitting together? Val was with Lauren.

I ask because you mentioned the witness statements debunked and I am wondering if that is how the myth of Cassie being asked if she believed in God started?

I do think there was a lot of confusion, and that was indeed how it likely started.

Right off the top of my head I can't remember exactly where she was sitting.   But safe to say it would have to be close enough to Cassie that people got confused as to which one said "Yes" when asked if they believed in God.

If you look at this photo you can see where Cassie was located. Valeen was near the door closer to Lauren and Kelly. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think Val was so brave, didn't she also supposedly yell for Dylan to stop shooting Lauren because she was already dead?


Lizpuff-Thank you! That blows my theory out of the water then.

Even during junior year I wonder how edged up Eric was allowed to be at home and with his family. Dylan's parents didn't give the clothes and music a second thought but Eric's family seemed super conservative.

Then that would make it even harder to mistake one for the other right?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Then that would make it even harder to mistake one for the other right?

In my mind yes.

I think when it was reported that "someone" was asked about God, people wanted to assume Cassie because she was known to be a Christian. On par with the Rachel Debacle

Lizpuff wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Then that would make it even harder to mistake one for the other right?

In my mind yes.  

I think when it was reported that "someone" was asked about God, people wanted to assume Cassie because she was known to be a Christian.  On par with the Rachel Debacle

I know that Craig Scott repeatedly claimed that is was Cassie. Even when he was shown that it was unlikely, and that he had gotten the areas they were sitting mixed up, he said that in his mind he still believed it was true.

Lizpuff wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Then that would make it even harder to mistake one for the other right?

In my mind yes.  

I think when it was reported that "someone" was asked about God, people wanted to assume Cassie because she was known to be a Christian.  On par with the Rachel Debacle

That story really seems to have originated with Craig Scott. He was on the west side of the library (which is where Cassie was hiding) right next to Matt Kechter and Isaiah Shoels and he seemed to remember hearing the "Do you believe in God?" exchange happening before either of them were killed. I think that's why he assumed it was Cassie. I think he was very confused and scared and he knew that Cassie was a Christian and that she was killed so it made sense. Cassie actually was praying when she was shot, according to the girl who was hiding with her, so it's possible that this really did draw their attention to her even if the exchange never took place. Craig found out later that it was actually Valeen Schnurr but he still believed that a similar exchange probably happened with Rachel because he heard something like it in the library.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Then that would make it even harder to mistake one for the other right?

In my mind yes.  

I think when it was reported that "someone" was asked about God, people wanted to assume Cassie because she was known to be a Christian.  On par with the Rachel Debacle

I know that Craig Scott repeatedly claimed that is was Cassie. Even when he was shown that it was unlikely, and that he had gotten the areas they were sitting mixed up, he said that in his mind he still believed it was true.

I didn't see this before I posted. He does accept that it was Valeen now, according to this article.

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sscc wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Then that would make it even harder to mistake one for the other right?

In my mind yes.  

I think when it was reported that "someone" was asked about God, people wanted to assume Cassie because she was known to be a Christian.  On par with the Rachel Debacle

I know that Craig Scott repeatedly claimed that is was Cassie. Even when he was shown that it was unlikely, and that he had gotten the areas they were sitting mixed up, he said that in his mind he still believed it was true.

I didn't see this before I posted. He does accept that it was Valeen now, according to this article.

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If true I am glad. 1 less person directly involved who is not spreading the lie anymore.

sscc wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Then that would make it even harder to mistake one for the other right?

In my mind yes.  

I think when it was reported that "someone" was asked about God, people wanted to assume Cassie because she was known to be a Christian.  On par with the Rachel Debacle

I know that Craig Scott repeatedly claimed that is was Cassie. Even when he was shown that it was unlikely, and that he had gotten the areas they were sitting mixed up, he said that in his mind he still believed it was true.

I didn't see this before I posted. He does accept that it was Valeen now, according to this article.

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Yeah he did flipflop a bit on the subject. Although I don't think he knowingly outright lied. More likely his memory tricked him due to stress and the horrific conditions he was under at the time.

Thank you for adding the link.

I find it interesting that Eric could seemingly get away with yelling at Dylan in public (soccer game) and telling him to shut up (car wax)

Considering how embarrassed he got and how sensitive he was about those things. He seemed to not let his other friends get away with things like that

Screamingophelia wrote:

I find it interesting that Eric could seemingly get away with yelling at Dylan in public (soccer game) and telling him to shut up (car wax)

Considering how embarrassed he got and how sensitive he was about those things. He seemed to not let his other friends get away with things like that

I think the "shut up" in the car wax vid was said in a friendly way. His tone didn't sound hateful or mean to me. If that makes sense.

But yeah the other screaming episode at the soccer game would have gotten little Eric punched if he was screaming at me the way it was described.

I wouldn't tolerate that either

Another thing I'd love to hear about is more of the Harris"s thoughts on Dylan

Sue never talks about how she feels about them. Except that Kathy cried a lot

She does say she never considered Eric his best friend

I might be the only one but in a sense I agree with Sue, that Dylan did not really see Eric as his best friend. It is true/untrue depending on how you see it in my opinion. I believe that Dylans depressed state that made him take distance from his own self made it possible for Dylan to see his and Erics friendship as genuine in one sense but really, the "old Dylan" probably did not see him as his best friend. Hope that makes sense haha, that is how I view their friendship.

When was the soccergame incident? Maybe Dylan didn't consider Eric his friend at that point and therefore didn't care.

If I remember correctly he said "That's just Eric" and then he sat quietly in the car the whole ride home. Yeah.. It does not really make any sense why he would make the exception for just Eric unless they already had developed a friendship. I'm just thinking it must've been quite a shallow friendship for him to not care and that likely did not change until Dylan changed.

Tiffany Typher in 2005:

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Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

Tiffany Typher in 2005:

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Thanks!

munchkinphone wrote:

I might be the only one but in a sense I agree with Sue, that Dylan did not really see Eric as his best friend. It is true/untrue depending on how you see it in my opinion. I believe that Dylans depressed state that made him take distance from his own self made it possible for Dylan to see his and Erics friendship as genuine in one sense but really, the "old Dylan" probably did not see him as his best friend. Hope that makes sense haha, that is how I view their friendship.

When was the soccergame incident? Maybe Dylan didn't consider Eric his friend at that point and therefore didn't care.

If I remember correctly he said "That's just Eric" and then he sat quietly in the car the whole ride home. Yeah.. It does not really make any sense why he would make the exception for just Eric unless they already had developed a friendship. I'm just thinking it must've been quite a shallow friendship for him to not care and that likely did not change until Dylan changed.

I THINK the soccer incident was Dylan's junior year but I feel like it was the summer before. I'm trying to remember if the story was in the "Pathway to Suicide" section. It was a little while after Dylan didn't make the baseball team and they were happy he found another sport to play even though he didn't excel at it.

I was also thinking maybe Dylan saw part of himself in Eric, Dylan wanted to go off on people but felt like he couldn't. So when Eric did it, he was fine with it. He may have had more patience with him. Where as if maybe Nate or Zach did that, Dylan would have told them to shut up. He didn't talk to Devon for a week after she said something "mean" to him. She never said what it was but she said it was something that shouldn't have been said. Though not knowing Dylan but knowing how sensitive he was, it could have been anything. Devon doesn't strike me as a malicious person.

On Dylan's van incident forms he doesn't call Eric his best friend, just a close friend and Eric calls him his BEST friend!


I still don't know how Eric becomes the evil mastermind after all this information is out.... I'm not giving Eric a pass but Dylan's like the silent puppet master at times and Eric is the puppet.

I agree that when the soccer incident happened Dylan probably didn't consider Eric his best friend so he didn't care as much. Over time though, as they both started to decline and push friends away, I think they became closer out of necessity.

Screamingophelia, you're right about Dylan seeing himself in Eric, but I don't know if he did yet at that point. Later on, Eric was probably the only one Dylan could relate to and confide in once he had committed himself to NBK.

It seemed like going towards senior year a lot of Dylan's really close friends became school friends and it was Eric and Dylan against the world.

With Eric's hot headed temper, and the fact he was petty and held a lot of grudges, he really didn't have many friends to push away. So when Eric said and lists that Dylan was his BEST friend, I think he truly meant it.

While Dylan clearly didn't think of Eric in the same way. Yet at the end, it was just the two of them. But who lead and who followed is really up for grabs and has been talked and discussed from every conceivable angle. Its just one of those thing that will never be known.

Screamingophelia wrote:

munchkinphone wrote:

I might be the only one but in a sense I agree with Sue, that Dylan did not really see Eric as his best friend. It is true/untrue depending on how you see it in my opinion. I believe that Dylans depressed state that made him take distance from his own self made it possible for Dylan to see his and Erics friendship as genuine in one sense but really, the "old Dylan" probably did not see him as his best friend. Hope that makes sense haha, that is how I view their friendship.

When was the soccergame incident? Maybe Dylan didn't consider Eric his friend at that point and therefore didn't care.

If I remember correctly he said "That's just Eric" and then he sat quietly in the car the whole ride home. Yeah.. It does not really make any sense why he would make the exception for just Eric unless they already had developed a friendship. I'm just thinking it must've been quite a shallow friendship for him to not care and that likely did not change until Dylan changed.

I THINK the soccer incident was Dylan's junior year but I feel like it was the summer before. I'm trying to remember if the story was in the "Pathway to Suicide" section. It was a little while after Dylan didn't make the baseball team and they were happy he found another sport to play even though he didn't excel at it.

I was also thinking maybe Dylan saw part of himself in Eric, Dylan wanted to go off on people but felt like he couldn't. So when Eric did it, he was fine with it. He may have had more patience with him. Where as if maybe Nate or Zach did that, Dylan would have told them to shut up. He didn't talk to Devon for a week after she said something "mean" to him. She never said what it was but she said it was something that shouldn't have been said. Though not knowing Dylan but knowing how sensitive he was, it could have been anything. Devon doesn't strike me as a malicious person.

On Dylan's van incident forms he doesn't call Eric his best friend, just a close friend and Eric calls him his BEST friend!


I still don't know how Eric becomes the evil mastermind after all this information is out.... I'm not giving Eric a pass but Dylan's like the silent puppet master at times and Eric is the puppet.

Yes, I totally agree!

I'd also like to know when Dylan supposedly slapped his boss. I question the validity of that. If I slapped my boss I'd be fired. i guess Blackjack was pretty lax. Drinking, setting off fireworks and bombs, slapping people.... I don't love all pizza but when I'm in Denver I do want to check out a Blackjacks pizza.

Granted at one of my old corporate jobs we got drunk on wine to celebrate a new CEO and went back to work LOL.

When Jason Secor was on the board, did anyone ask him about that?