Would Eric and Dylan kill their g/f's?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

cakeman wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

cakeman wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

cakeman wrote:

Yeah, probably. Eric did say things like that if his plans were discovered, his murder spree would begin. So, hell, Dylan's mom said she would have tackled him that morning and then interrogated him or 'talk' or something if she knew what she knew now. I wonder if Dylan would have stabbed her.

Not Sure that he would’ve been able to stab her but I bet he would be able to subdue her at least push her out of the way and get into his car . However I think if it was his dad he wouldn’t  be able to push him away his dad was a pretty big guy

Interesting about his dad, for given the exposure he seems more of an enigma like Eric's parents than he does a real person like Dylan and his mother.

In this scenario, she knows the plan, so if he just pushes her away, it's a matter of time before she calls the police. I am not sure he would have been able to stab her either. Obviously, they never stabbed anyone or themselves during the massacre, and parents are another can of worms. But they were never tackled either, and I wonder if that is the kind of scenario which would have brought the knives out. What is he going to do, tie his parents up and cut the phone line? Even if he were prepared to shoot them, he probably wasn't 'geared up' yet.

Quite curious what Eric had in mind when he said that if the plans are discovered, the murder spree begins. He could have meant if somebody at school uncovered the plan, and then perhaps things more or less happen the same way but at an earlier date. But, surely the weapons were brought only on that day, and how would the school find out? That makes me think he meant if the plans were discovered at home. If so, they were probably prepared to kill their parents, and that is possibly small fry compared to a girlfriend.

Though to actually respond to the OP (oops), yeah, incel rage was a part of it, I'd say more than bullying, and one is correct to say losing virginity doesn't bring one a steady love life. And as depressed as they were, a break up would only make it worse. So, like they say, if they found 'the one' then yeah probably no massacre. Just 'a gf' though, if she found the plans for the massacre, they may have shot her right there. Not to mention if she just happened to be in the cafeteria.

Also I think by some measure - Brooks had to say they had "girlfriends" not girlfriends, which is more than others can say, Susan was Eric's gf and Robyn Dylan's gf, and they would have shrugged their shoulders if either died.

I disagree. Incel is a new thing and I don't think they, especially Dylan, committed the massacre because they could not get laid.

I get really irritated at this because you are also putting a lot of onus on the girls in this. Saying "hey girls, wanna stop a school shooter, you know what to do!"

We also went over a myriad of school/mass shooters who had sex and still committed massacres.

They were angry at society, there was mental illness, bullying... it was the times and if you weren't a teen in the late 90's in suburban America you may not get it and that's fine.. but I was and I get the atmosphere we were living in. Someone like Eric was growing up with a military father like Wayne, Kevin was a golden boy and he had OCD issues, health issues and was smaller than them both. I get that too. I had a lot of health issues growing up and people do treat you differently.

So no, it is not as simplistic as bullying or not getting laid. A lot of kids in HS are not having sex and that is okay.

The term is new, not the idea. It seems to me straightforward in his writing that Dylan felt no hope because he felt he'd never find love.  As incels are apt to say, it's not "tfw no sex", it's "tfw no gf". I don't think Brooks pointed out that they died virgins for no reason, and don't think the significance of that is about merely 'getting laid'.

"I get really irritated at this because you are also putting a lot of onus on the girls in this." Seems like an appeal to consequences. Yeah, it means the sexual revolution has a role in this, leaving low status men out of the market for women. Elliott Rodger is exhibit a. That the middle east has harems, leaving low status men out of luck and hopeless, is one reason given for why suicide attacks are more of an Arab thing.

"We also went over a myriad of school/mass shooters who had sex and still committed massacres." Well, I'm not talking about them, and it seems to me there are several attacking women directly. Rodger, Sodini, Lepine, Hennard, et al.

I agree it's not as simplistic as bullying or "not getting laid", but I think the feeling of failure with women is a bigger factor than bullying for their anger at society.

Weren't Robyn and Susan their g/fs though?

No. Robyn had a crush on Dylan, he apparently didn't feel the same about her.  Susan and Eric barely knew each other. Their first date was on prom night. Not really a date, more just hanging out watching movies.

You’re right! Dylan went on a date with Kristen Theibault and in the 11k she said she thought they might be dating...

I think Dylan went to prom with Robyn to be nice and also maybe to give his fam and friends some happy memories to outweigh the bad ones that were to come

Screamingophelia wrote:

I think Dylan went to prom with Robyn to be nice and also maybe to give his fam  and friends some happy memories to outweigh the bad ones that were to come

Agreed.

Sabratha wrote:

Still, I think that if he was meeting escorts in college, its likely at least a few encounters ended with sex if he had the cash. 

Speculative and unconfirmed.

cakeman wrote:

That the middle east has harems, leaving low status men out of luck and hopeless, is one reason given for why suicide attacks are more of an Arab thing.

I don't follow. 

QuestionMark wrote:

cakeman wrote:

That the middle east has harems, leaving low status men out of luck and hopeless, is one reason given for why suicide attacks are more of an Arab thing.

I don't follow. 

Well, having more men kept out of the sexual market is one story to explain why an Arab Muslim seems the usual type for a suicide attack, using Darwinianish reasoning. If an organism isn't going to reproduce, it can seek to eliminate itself with depression and suicide, or use that to stop the other groups from reproducing as much in a rampage.

It's something of a just so story, and if in fact married eskimos are the leaders in attacks, then obviously it's not the case. However, I think it's at least the feeling for many.

cakeman wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

cakeman wrote:

That the middle east has harems, leaving low status men out of luck and hopeless, is one reason given for why suicide attacks are more of an Arab thing.

I don't follow. 

Well, having more men kept out of the sexual market is one story to explain why an Arab Muslim seems the usual type for a suicide attack, using Darwinianish reasoning. 

When I said "I don't follow" I'm referring to the assertion that there's somehow fewer females available for men in the Middle East than there would be normally. I don't buy it.

Sabratha wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

What? Cho was a virgin.

I am sure I remember that he used the services of prostitutes. Of course nobody revealed any intimate details and one escort simply reported dancing for him and then going awya as he didn't seem to have enough money and was pushy.

Still, I think that if he was meeting escorts in college, its likely at least a few encounters ended with sex if he had the cash. I don't think this mattered much for his mental state and the reasons behind the attack though.

I think that you are correct, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Cho had the money. He paid on his credit card and that is how the FBI tracked her. She left because he creeped her out. He met her a month before the shooting. He was probably pushy because he didn't know how to deal with women and it was a last ditch effort at losing his virginity. He failed.

sscc wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

What? Cho was a virgin.

I am sure I remember that he used the services of prostitutes. Of course nobody revealed any intimate details and one escort simply reported dancing for him and then going awya as he didn't seem to have enough money and was pushy.

Still, I think that if he was meeting escorts in college, its likely at least a few encounters ended with sex if he had the cash. I don't think this mattered much for his mental state and the reasons behind the attack though.

I think that you are correct, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Cho had the money. He paid on his credit card and that is how the FBI tracked her. She left because he creeped her out. He met her a month before the shooting. He was probably pushy because he didn't know how to deal with women and it was a last ditch effort at losing his virginity. He failed.

How can you creep an escort out? I mean you're just paying for sex.

sscc wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

What? Cho was a virgin.

I am sure I remember that he used the services of prostitutes. Of course nobody revealed any intimate details and one escort simply reported dancing for him and then going awya as he didn't seem to have enough money and was pushy.

Still, I think that if he was meeting escorts in college, its likely at least a few encounters ended with sex if he had the cash. I don't think this mattered much for his mental state and the reasons behind the attack though.

I think that you are correct, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Cho had the money. He paid on his credit card and that is how the FBI tracked her. She left because he creeped her out. He met her a month before the shooting. He was probably pushy because he didn't know how to deal with women and it was a last ditch effort at losing his virginity. He failed.

That is the epitome of failure! What a Pathetic worm

bradt93 wrote:

How can you creep an escort out? I mean you're just paying for sex.

Yeah creeping out an escort is an accomplishment.

Just think of all the weirdos they come across.

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

I disagree. I don’t think a girlfriend could hsve helped Dylan. He needed more. Love is not enough

It’s so simplistic and odd to me that people think all these mass shootings happen because teens aren’t getting laid

Tommy QTR wrote:

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

Maybe it would've prevented the shootings but it would not have been good for the women who had to live in that relationship.

QuestionMark wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

Maybe it would've prevented the shootings but it would not have been good for the women who had to live in that relationship.

I’m the first person to say that Eric and Dylan had good qualities but especially with Dylan he would not have been a good boyfriend. He had qualities of a good friend but I don’t think Dylan would have been a good boyfriend and a break up would’ve wrecked him to the point of doing something like the massacre later perhaps Or he would’ve killed him self

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

Maybe it would've prevented the shootings but it would not have been good for the women who had to live in that relationship.

I’m the first person to say that Eric and Dylan had good qualities but especially with Dylan he would not have been a good boyfriend. He had qualities of a good friend but I don’t think Dylan would have been a good boyfriend and a break up would’ve wrecked him to the point of doing something like the massacre later perhaps Or he would’ve killed him self

And you think Eric would of been a good boyfriend? He would of been extremely abusive and controlling, I imagine with his temper he would hit his girlfriend or threatened to kill her if she did anything to annoy him.

Tommy QTR wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

Maybe it would've prevented the shootings but it would not have been good for the women who had to live in that relationship.

I’m the first person to say that Eric and Dylan had good qualities but especially with Dylan he would not have been a good boyfriend. He had qualities of a good friend but I don’t think Dylan would have been a good boyfriend and a break up would’ve wrecked him to the point of doing something like the massacre later perhaps Or he would’ve killed him self

And you think Eric would of been a good boyfriend? He would of been extremely abusive and controlling, I imagine with his temper he would hit his girlfriend or threatened to kill her if she did anything to annoy him.

I actually don’t think that he would hit his girlfriend. I think he would punch a wall before that. If he didnt get his anger in check I think he would be very explosive if there was any issues in the relationship. There’s actually a really good wtite up about it on a blog.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I disagree. I don’t think a girlfriend could hsve helped Dylan. He needed more. Love is not enough

It’s so simplistic and odd to me that people think all these mass shootings happen because teens aren’t getting laid

Some people cannot be saved, or helped. That is the reality most people refuse to comprehend.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

Maybe it would've prevented the shootings but it would not have been good for the women who had to live in that relationship.

I’m the first person to say that Eric and Dylan had good qualities but especially with Dylan he would not have been a good boyfriend. He had qualities of a good friend but I don’t think Dylan would have been a good boyfriend and a break up would’ve wrecked him to the point of doing something like the massacre later perhaps Or he would’ve killed him self

And you think Eric would of been a good boyfriend? He would of been extremely abusive and controlling, I imagine with his temper he would hit his girlfriend or threatened to kill her if she did anything to annoy him.

I actually don’t think that he would hit his girlfriend. I think he would punch a wall before that. If he didnt get his anger in check I think he would be very explosive if there was  any issues in the relationship. There’s actually a really good wtite up about it on a  blog.

Well Eric was emotionally unstable so I wouldn't put it past him, I mean he threatened to kill Brooks for not taking him to School in his car.

Tommy QTR wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

Maybe it would've prevented the shootings but it would not have been good for the women who had to live in that relationship.

I’m the first person to say that Eric and Dylan had good qualities but especially with Dylan he would not have been a good boyfriend. He had qualities of a good friend but I don’t think Dylan would have been a good boyfriend and a break up would’ve wrecked him to the point of doing something like the massacre later perhaps Or he would’ve killed him self

And you think Eric would of been a good boyfriend? He would of been extremely abusive and controlling, I imagine with his temper he would hit his girlfriend or threatened to kill her if she did anything to annoy him.

I actually don’t think that he would hit his girlfriend. I think he would punch a wall before that. If he didnt get his anger in check I think he would be very explosive if there was  any issues in the relationship. There’s actually a really good wtite up about it on a  blog.

Well Eric was emotionally unstable so I wouldn't put it past him, I mean he threatened to kill Brooks for not taking him to School in his car.

He was never violent physically towards anybody though(before 4:20) threats are different. I’m not saying they’re right but they’re different

But no I respectfully disagree I don’t think he would beat his girlfriend or lay his hands on her. He would be more apt to go and punch a wall and then send her some nasty emails if they broke up or he would say mean things to her if they fought

Tommy QTR wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

Maybe it would've prevented the shootings but it would not have been good for the women who had to live in that relationship.

I’m the first person to say that Eric and Dylan had good qualities but especially with Dylan he would not have been a good boyfriend. He had qualities of a good friend but I don’t think Dylan would have been a good boyfriend and a break up would’ve wrecked him to the point of doing something like the massacre later perhaps Or he would’ve killed him self

And you think Eric would of been a good boyfriend? He would of been extremely abusive and controlling, I imagine with his temper he would hit his girlfriend or threatened to kill her if she did anything to annoy him.

I actually don’t think that he would hit his girlfriend. I think he would punch a wall before that. If he didnt get his anger in check I think he would be very explosive if there was  any issues in the relationship. There’s actually a really good wtite up about it on a  blog.

Well Eric was emotionally unstable so I wouldn't put it past him, I mean he threatened to kill Brooks for not taking him to School in his car.

True! Eric was a bit hotheaded, but then again he wasn't trying to get into Brooks pants either.

I think Eric would have tried to be as nice as he could to a girl he liked in hopes of it going somewhere. Now IF it had ever progressed past the "lets just hang out together" phase into a real relationship is a different matter. I think Eric would have been a very jealous, very clingy, type of boyfriend.

He did have issues with controlling his temper. I could see him punching a wall in frustration, possibly even shoving his girlfriend in a moment of extreme anger. Not saying that he would NEVER have hit his gf, but I think he would have been more of a screamer, hitting inanimate objects, throwing things, slamming doors, etc. then actual physical assault.

It is impossible to know if he would have hit his girlfriend or not because he would have changed by growing up.

I think having a girlfriend is very different from having a wife. He could be rather nice with his girlfriend, but be different once he is in a more stable and serious relationship with her. Many men who beat their wife changed when they got married. I think it could also depend on the job Eric would have had. Since he had an inferiority complex, I can well imagine him hitting his wife if he had a bad job that made him feel as if he was nothing, but again we cannot know and our assumptions are probably based on the version of Eric we have in our head.

Even if Eric wouldn't have hit his girlfriend, I don't think any relationship he would be in would have lasted long.

I think that if they both had a girlfriend, NBK might not have happened then, but later on if their relationships ended, possibly at a location other than at Columbine.

Purposely no, I don't think they would of killed their girlfriends if they had one. Now as collateral damage I think most definitely. They wouldn't be dead set on killing them, but if they were to die by the bombs going off or by blind fire, it wouldn't faze them IMO. Also I highly doubt any girl could of been able to stop NBK. They were so dead set on revenge that although a girlfriend would of been nice for them, I highly doubt it would of changed anything. When Eric says "Susan things could of been different", I take that he is saying that if the school and his peers treated him differently, things could of possibly been different. I don't believe for a second that Eric meant if they dated or Susan was his girl, that NBK never would of happened. Even vagina couldn't of stopped them, it was beyond anything a girl could give them.

slippy123 wrote:

Even vagina couldn't of stopped them, it was beyond anything a girl could give them.

100% agreed. Their problems were much deeper and more complicated then the lack of a girlfriend and sex.

Neah wrote:

It is impossible to know if he would have hit his girlfriend or not because he would have changed by growing up.

I think having a girlfriend is very different from having a wife. He could be rather nice with his girlfriend, but be different once he is in a more stable and serious relationship with her. Many men who beat their wife changed when they got married. I think it could also depend on the job Eric would have had. Since he had an inferiority complex, I can well imagine him hitting his wife if he had a bad job that made him feel life he was nothing, but again we cannot know and our assumptions are probably based on the version of Eric we have in our head.

Its really hard to make assumptions. Eric had a horrible temper and was sexist, but at the same time... I don't remember him reported as hitting any of his female friends. He wasn't even reported hitting any girl in school at all (while Dylan was). He never hit his dog and AFAIK he never hit Dylan in anger either.

Not saying I know what he would do. But given the facts above, I don't think it makese sense to assume that he would obviously be violent. He might have, he might have not.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Tommy QTR wrote:

I think if they had girlfriends then the attack wouldn't of happened, for Dylan at least.

There are dozens of shootings that could of been prevented if the killer had a partner, Elliot Rodger comes to mind.

Maybe it would've prevented the shootings but it would not have been good for the women who had to live in that relationship.

I’m the first person to say that Eric and Dylan had good qualities but especially with Dylan he would not have been a good boyfriend. He had qualities of a good friend but I don’t think Dylan would have been a good boyfriend and a break up would’ve wrecked him to the point of doing something like the massacre later perhaps Or he would’ve killed him self

And you think Eric would of been a good boyfriend? He would of been extremely abusive and controlling, I imagine with his temper he would hit his girlfriend or threatened to kill her if she did anything to annoy him.

I actually don’t think that he would hit his girlfriend. I think he would punch a wall before that. If he didnt get his anger in check I think he would be very explosive if there was  any issues in the relationship. There’s actually a really good wtite up about it on a  blog.

Well Eric was emotionally unstable so I wouldn't put it past him, I mean he threatened to kill Brooks for not taking him to School in his car.

He was never violent physically towards anybody though(before 4:20)  threats are different. I’m not saying they’re right but they’re different

The massacre does prove that he's capable of violence though. I imagine that he'd get physically violent with his partner after a potential break-up; a murder-suicide that's restricted to him and his partner instead of society at large.

Sabratha wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Cruz wasn't a virgin either.

I think people overestimate the impact of "being a virgin" and underestimate the impact of "having no decent love life whatsoever".

Cho was not a virgin. Little good did that do for him.

Cho was not a virgin? Are you kidding me? Seung was arguably the BIGGEST virgin among all of these mass killers apart from Chris Mercer and Elliot Rodger.

Why do you think Elliot Rodger liked him so much? He was Asian and a virgin.

I don't think women would've saved these kids. They were going for all the popular girls at their school.

Eric got laughed at because he asked out a girl that probably dates jocks.

They wouldn't just settle for an average looking girl. These kids wanted the best looking girls imaginable.

Both kids were narcissistic to a degree in that regard.

Ivan wrote:

I don't think women would've saved these kids. They were going for all the popular girls at their school.

Eric got laughed at because he asked out a girl that probably dates jocks.

They wouldn't just settle for an average looking girl. These kids wanted the best looking girls imaginable.

Both kids were narcissistic to a degree in that regard.

"narcissistic"? My gosh that should've been a match right there, because most "popular" girls in high school are narcissists.

bradt93 wrote:

Ivan wrote:

I don't think women would've saved these kids. They were going for all the popular girls at their school.

Eric got laughed at because he asked out a girl that probably dates jocks.

They wouldn't just settle for an average looking girl. These kids wanted the best looking girls imaginable.

Both kids were narcissistic to a degree in that regard.

"narcissistic"? My gosh that should've been a match right there, because most "popular" girls in high school are narcissists.

Sure they are. But you don't have to interact with them. You pick and choose who you want in your life and who you don't, why choose a shallow person who has no deep resonating feelings beyond physical attraction?

It's not worth your time to waste it on women (or girls in this discussion) who have no real, true "self awareness" (not like how Eric and Dylan described, but someone who actually takes the time to examine and value life for deeper things than physical appearance).

Eric and Dylan hadn't grasped this concept yet although both kids weren't really all that ugly to begin with. Dylan wasn't quite as attractive as Eric in the face but the kid was tall. He was 6'4". As he aged he'd have become heavier and women would've found him more attractive.

Eric was short. But he was nice looking in the face. Some girl would've found him handsome sooner or later (he even got that at Columbine mind you).