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 Twenty years of Columbine

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 7:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Neah wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
How strange to think that NBK is already "over,"

And sadly for many people who would be traumatized for life and suffer from PTSD, the shooting was only the beginning of the horror...

Yes.

Eric and Dylan will forever haunt the memories of their victims. In that sense, they got their wish.

And, to the extent that sites such as this one help keep their legend alive, we are giving them exactly what they wanted. They wanted to be immortal, and here we are, twenty years later, commemorating their crimes.

So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.

And the sad thing is. No Noterity, it won’t work with Columbine.Everyone knows Eric and Dylan’s names. The other sad part is when it comes the victims most people know of Mr. Sanders, Rachel and Cassie. But do they know anything about Kelly Fleming and how she was a gifted writer? What about Lauren was an artist? We have to remember them all.

But like in every tragedy you always have certain people who die that sick out more so than others. No fault of their’s of course but it’s the media they go online to one or two people. Put them on a pedestal almost.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 7:45 pm

@Screamingophelia wrote:
The other sad part is when it comes the victims most people know of Mr. Sanders, Rachel and Cassie. But do they know anything about Kelly Fleming and how she was a gifted writer? What about Lauren was an artist? We have  to remember them all.

But like in every tragedy you always have certain people who die that sick out more so than others. No fault of their’s of course but it’s the media they go online to one or two people. Put them on a pedestal almost.

What I find the worse is not even those who had a talent or did something good that we don't remember of, but those who died before actually having the chance to do something good or significant to be remembered (obviously other than being a victim of Columbine).
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 7:51 pm

Neah wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The other sad part is when it comes the victims most people know of Mr. Sanders, Rachel and Cassie. But do they know anything about Kelly Fleming and how she was a gifted writer? What about Lauren was an artist? We have  to remember them all.

But like in every tragedy you always have certain people who die that sick out more so than others. No fault of their’s of course but it’s the media they go online to one or two people. Put them on a pedestal almost.

What I find the worse is not even those who had a talent or did something good that we don't remember of, but those who died before actually having the chance to do something good or significant to be remembered (obviously other than being a victim of Columbine).


Excellent point

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 8:05 pm

@LPorter101 wrote:
At this moment twenty years ago, Eric and Dylan were finding out whether there really was a hell.

Read the rest of the timeline here:
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/NARRATIVE.Time.Line2.htm

Are you implying you think they went to Hell
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 8:17 pm

TheOne99 wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
At this moment twenty years ago, Eric and Dylan were finding out whether there really was a hell.

Read the rest of the timeline here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Are you implying you think they went to Hell
Well they wouldn't be going to heaven.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 8:22 pm

its hard to believe this all happened.... its too crazy

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 1:18 am

It’s now 6:10 PM in Littleton. It’s around the time of the last buses started showing up. A couple hours ago it turned gray cold and windy. No rain or sleet like 20 years ago though.

I went to the remembrance event. It was really powerful. A few thoughts that I had are The people that were speaking that didn’t go through Columbine talked about hate and about evil evil evil. The students that spoke, the teachers and principal DeAngelis did not utter any words about evil or hate. Ok, Mr. D said hate will not win. Which I agree with. They talked about forgiveness and redemption and love. Moving forward not letting their deaths be in vain.

There was a video tribute at the end I found it interesting that Isaiah only have the two photos that were from school that we’ve seen his family didn’t give any new photos or videos.

Sean Graves spoke and it was incredible. He was struggling a lot holding back tears. He kept apologizing and we all stood up and clapped for him. He was still working through so much. I did not know that he was paralyzed for a long time. He was shot six times. Patrick Ireland spoke as well and he talked about his friendship with Sean and how they met at the hospital. And then Lauren’s mom spoke. She’s actually one of the people who started the day of service. The governor has declared April 20 to be a day of service for the whole state



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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:06 am

Right now it's shortly after seven in the evening. The sun will set at about quarter to eight. For so many people, this day has wrought devastation on a scale that defies imagination.

The bodies are rotting in the library. Those who died, including Eric and Dylan, will lie where they fell until well into the next day.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:25 am

Mr. Sanders was the only one who was released?

I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:35 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Mr. Sanders was the only one who was released?

I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close

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The authorities were still so concerned about the possibility of more danger that most of the bodies were removed from the school only this evening. They were taken to the county coroner's office. Some were so unrecognizable that parents were asked to supply dental records of their missing children.

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Parents waited for more than 24 hours until they finally received official word of their children's fate. Not until Wednesday afternoon were the first bodies removed from the scene. By 7 p.m., all the corpses had been taken to the coroner's office.

Investigators had left the bodies in place for so long so they could check for explosives and record the details of the crime scene, which SWAT members described as something from "Dante's Inferno."

Many bodies were sprawled on the floor, slumped in desks or crouched beneath tables, boxes and cubicles where they apparently tried to hide. Police found a handgun under one of the killers, and a semiautomatic rifle and two sawed-off shotguns elsewhere.

"It was a different sort of chaos inside," SWAT Sgt. George Hinkle said. "There were fire alarms going off, strobe lights, 4 inches of water in the cafeteria. We had been told there were bombs in backpacks and there were backpacks everywhere. It was the toughest tactical problem I've ever seen."

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:39 am

As to the video tribute at the end of the service and Isaiah not having any new photos from the family: The Shoels felt very victimized after Columbine. They felt it literally ran them out of town. I found a lot of their info in the Jeff Kass book. They probably still feel unwelcome in Littleton hence not adding to the video tribute.

(Sorry I don’t know how to quote others on here since I use only mobile).
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:40 am

@[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Thank you for the detailed info

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:42 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close

A few years ago, I corresponded briefly with a teacher who knew Rachel and Dylan. She said that, in the days after the shooting, she had nightmares about Rachel being trapped in the coffin. She woke up screaming, "Rachel is trapped! She can't breathe! She can't breathe!" It was not until she saw Rachel's body at the funeral that she finally accepted that the girl was truly dead and gone. Her expression was so stern and her features were so frozen that she was unrecognizable as the person the teacher had known.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:45 am

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
As to the video tribute at the end of the service and Isaiah not having any new photos from the family: The Shoels felt very victimized after Columbine. They felt it literally ran them out of town. I found a lot of their info in the Jeff Kass book. They probably still feel unwelcome in Littleton hence not adding to the video tribute.

(Sorry I don’t know how to quote others on here since I use only mobile).


I didn’t know that, thank you for letting me know.Now I’m interested in knowing why. I know I’ve read stories about Val, it seems like she was practically run out of town after.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:46 am

Imagine being one of their parents that day and having to look for your child but their dead on the floor Crying or Very sad No

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:52 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close

A few years ago, I corresponded briefly with a teacher who knew Rachel and Dylan. She said that, in the days after the shooting, she had nightmares about Rachel being trapped in the coffin. She woke up screaming, "Rachel is trapped! She can't breathe! She can't breathe!" It was not until she saw Rachel's body at the funeral that she finally accepted that the girl was truly dead and gone. Her expression was so stern and her features were so frozen that she was unrecognizable as the person the teacher had known.

I have read peoples accounts of seeing Rachel in the coffin and the look on her face. It’s interesting because Sue and Byron Also talked about seeing the look and Dylan’s face and how it was so different tv

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:54 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close

A few years ago, I corresponded briefly with a teacher who knew Rachel and Dylan. She said that, in the days after the shooting, she had nightmares about Rachel being trapped in the coffin. She woke up screaming, "Rachel is trapped! She can't breathe! She can't breathe!" It was not until she saw Rachel's body at the funeral that she finally accepted that the girl was truly dead and gone. Her expression was so stern and her features were so frozen that she was unrecognizable as the person the teacher had known.

I have read peoples accounts of seeing Rachel in the coffin and the look on her face. It’s interesting because Sue and Byron Also talked about seeing the look and Dylan’s face and how it was so different tv
What did that mean?
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:56 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close

A few years ago, I corresponded briefly with a teacher who knew Rachel and Dylan. She said that, in the days after the shooting, she had nightmares about Rachel being trapped in the coffin. She woke up screaming, "Rachel is trapped! She can't breathe! She can't breathe!" It was not until she saw Rachel's body at the funeral that she finally accepted that the girl was truly dead and gone. Her expression was so stern and her features were so frozen that she was unrecognizable as the person the teacher had known.

I have read peoples accounts of seeing Rachel in the coffin and the look on her face. It’s interesting because Sue and Byron Also talked about seeing the look and Dylan’s face and how it was so different tv
What did that mean?

Have you ever seen the dead body of someone you knew - say, at a funeral? The facial expression is so ... unnatural. It looks more like a statue than a human being.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 2:59 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close

A few years ago, I corresponded briefly with a teacher who knew Rachel and Dylan. She said that, in the days after the shooting, she had nightmares about Rachel being trapped in the coffin. She woke up screaming, "Rachel is trapped! She can't breathe! She can't breathe!" It was not until she saw Rachel's body at the funeral that she finally accepted that the girl was truly dead and gone. Her expression was so stern and her features were so frozen that she was unrecognizable as the person the teacher had known.

I have read peoples accounts of seeing Rachel in the coffin and the look on her face. It’s interesting because Sue and Byron Also talked about seeing the look and Dylan’s face and how it was so different tv
What did that mean?

I think it’s when they diee their face can get stuck in a scowl or something . I remember when my friend Julie died and she was so vibrant and full of life and the look on her face was so serious and she was just stern and dressed in black in her coffin and It just wasn’t the Julie that I knew.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 3:01 am

I do and I don't get the tradition of seeing bodies at a funeral...if you want to remember them happy, why look at their dead body....
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 3:47 am

The fact that the police didn’t save Dave Sanders is unforgivable. He was literally alive for a very long time.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 3:50 am

AmericaMan wrote:
The fact that the police didn’t save Dave Sanders is unforgivable. He was literally alive for a very long time.

Yes, it is unconscionable.

It is equally unconscionable that Jeffco did not pursue the Browns' complaint against Eric Harris.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 4:15 am

It is now 9:15 in Colorado. The long day's journey into night is over. For so many, this night will be longer and darker than any other. Some of the victims will not emerge out of the darkness into the glow of dawn's early light for days, weeks, months, years, decades.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 5:01 am

20 years. Unreal. I was a high school freshman when it happened. This was broadcasting on national news on the television when I got home from school and for the days and weeks to come. Zero Tolerance policies and the fear of other possible tragedies loomed in the background of those of us who were teenagers at the time. Now I work with young people. I cannot imagine being in those teachers’ shoes.

Mental health is real for our young people.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 5:26 am

I’m driving by Columbine on my way home. It’s 10:24 pm. The world has changed so much in 20 years.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 5:27 am

@Screamingophelia wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
As to the video tribute at the end of the service and Isaiah not having any new photos from the family: The Shoels felt very victimized after Columbine. They felt it literally ran them out of town. I found a lot of their info in the Jeff Kass book. They probably still feel unwelcome in Littleton hence not adding to the video tribute.

(Sorry I don’t know how to quote others on here since I use only mobile).


I didn’t know that, thank you for letting me know.Now I’m interested in knowing why. I know I’ve read stories about Val, it seems like she was practically  run out of town after.

Do we know why Val seemed to be ran out of town too?
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 5:37 am

hvernon wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
As to the video tribute at the end of the service and Isaiah not having any new photos from the family: The Shoels felt very victimized after Columbine. They felt it literally ran them out of town. I found a lot of their info in the Jeff Kass book. They probably still feel unwelcome in Littleton hence not adding to the video tribute.

(Sorry I don’t know how to quote others on here since I use only mobile).


I didn’t know that, thank you for letting me know.Now I’m interested in knowing why. I know I’ve read stories about Val, it seems like she was practically  run out of town after.

Do we know why Val seemed to be ran out of town too?

She punctured the "She said yes" myth.

As much as I loathe Dave Cullen, I must give him credit for being the reporter who broke the story of the Cassie Bernall myth:

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But cooperative sources quickly clammed up when questioned about the most celebrated Columbine story of all, immortalized this month in Misty Bernall's bestseller, "She Said Yes: The Unlikely Martyrdom of Cassie Bernall." "This is just too sensitive," a key source said, insisting on anonymity even for that statement. According to Misty Bernall's book, which has energized Christian youth movements around the world, the killers put a gun to her daughter Cassie's head and asked if she believed in God. When she said yes, they blew her away.

But while no one would go on the record, key investigators made it clear that an alternate scenario is far more likely: The killers asked another girl, Valeen Schnurr, a similar question, then shot her, and she lived to tell about it. Schnurr's story was then apparently misattributed to Cassie.

"Many of the kids were actually hiding under desks and hearing only bits and fragments of the conversation," one investigator explained. "It appears that exactly who they taunted, what questions were asked and who replied what may never be crystal clear." And even if it is clear, investigators clearly don't intend to tell. They cited the tense political climate around the story in this heavily evangelical community, as well as the potential embarrassment to Cassie's family, uniformly describing the Bernalls as sincere victims who may have been misinformed "through no malicious intent."

But investigators were willing to say that whichever girl was asked about her faith, her life did not hinge on her answer. One key investigator said there is no evidence the outcome would have been any different if she had denied she believed in God.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 5:50 am

It's almost 10:45 p.m. in Denver. Roughly twelve hours ago, Eric and Dylan were recording the last basement tape.

I've been thinking about the anniversary for months. Indeed, when I realized that this year would be the twentieth, I knew that I would have to do something big to mark it, if only to provide some measure of closure after two decades of studying the massacre.

But now that it's over, all I'm left with is ... emptiness. The dead are just as dead as they were twenty years ago, and just as dead as they'll be twenty years from now. There's such a sense of futility about the whole thing. In the end, Eric and Dylan were nothing more than two bright young guys who pissed away their lives and killed thirteen other human beings in a blaze of hatred.

Twenty years of poring over everything, and still the question remains as unanswerable as ever: "Why?"

Maybe the point is that, when all is said and done, the only thing we can say about Columbine is the only thing we can say about anything: "Shit happens."

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 6:08 am

Well, maybe I can say this:

Some weeks ago, I went to the beach - not to swim, but to look out at the vast expanse of ocean and let my mind ponder the uncharted possibilities of existence.

It was a cloudy day with a cool breeze. I looked at the sand; I looked at the sky; I looked at the sea.

Finally, i said, "Ten thousand years ago, there were men who stood on the sand and looked at the sea; ten thousand years from now, there will be men who will stand on the sand and look at the sea. The sand and the sea and the sky are eternal. They were here long before we got here, and they'll be here long after we're gone."

In other words, there's really nothing new under the sun. Men live and die; civilizations rise and fall; all the while, the waves crash endlessly upon the shore.

People have been killing each other for as long as there have been people. History is one long list of massacres - wars, conquests, revolutions, what have you. The capacity for murder is bred into each and every one of us.

Most people, under the "normal" circumstances that now prevail, are not capable of murdering other human beings for no particularly good reason. But some folks, for whatever reason, are capable of doing such things. Do we know why? Can we know why? Who can say?

Is the question even worth asking? Yes, but only because it it the journey of discovery that matters, not the unreachable destination of ultimate truth.

The part of me that believes in God is extremely grateful for the opportunity to do things such as standing on the beach, watching the waves crashing upon the shore. If I didn't have the chance to unwind once in a while, I'd go insane.

Maybe Eric and Dylan just needed a little time and space to themselves. Maybe someone should have given Eric a big pile of money and told him, "Go see the world. Come back in a year." Maybe not having to live up to anyone's expectations would have allowed him to cultivate an inner sense of purpose.

If I have accomplished anything over the last twenty years, it is disabusing myself of the notion that something like NBK can be tied up in a nice little package. There are as many unanswered (and unanswerable) questions about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold as there are grains of sand on the beach. There are as many possible interpretations of the available evidence as there are stars in the heavens. Columbiners on Tumblr cling to their bullying-revenge narrative; Cullen spews his psychobabble; I dump everything into a circular file labeled "the perfect storm."

If I have proven anything in the last two decades, it is that nothing can be proven. In the end, no one perspective can satisfy everyone.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 6:10 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Mr. Sanders was the only one who was released?

I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close


Yeah Screamingophelia, completely agree. It’s unimaginable to know that your child, and their resting place, is so close you can see it from your home.

There are so many heartbreaking stories that came out of this tragedy. To me some of the saddest are Dave Sanders bleeding to death while a couple of students try to comfort him, Anne Marie’s mother taking her own life 6 months after the shooting, and all of the other shootings that were motivated by Columbine. No one also really thinks about the siblings of those killed.

I’ll probably be scoffed at this, but I also feel sorry for Eric and Dylan, as well as their parents/families. They were victims, too. All humans act in certain ways with particular reasons why.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 6:16 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Mr. Sanders was the only one who was released?

I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close


Yeah Screamingophelia, completely agree. It’s unimaginable to know that your child, and their resting place, is so close you can see it from your home.

There are so many heartbreaking stories that came out of this tragedy. To me some of the saddest are Dave Sanders bleeding to death while a couple of students try to comfort him, Anne Marie’s mother taking her own life 6 months after the shooting, and all of the other shootings that were motivated by Columbine. No one also really thinks about the siblings of those killed.

I’ll probably be scoffed at this, but I also feel sorry for Eric and Dylan, as well as their parents/families. They were victims, too. All humans act in certain ways with particular reasons why.

No scoffing from me. I find myself torn but I feel sorry for eric and dylan and their families. I know it probably hurt Sue and Tom and I am sure even kathy and wayne that their kids were alone and did something horrible.

Any kid who feels so angry that they need to destroy peoples lives in the way that Eric and Dylan did break my heart.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 6:47 am

Westygalery wrote:
I do and I don't get the tradition of seeing bodies at a funeral...if you want to remember them happy, why look at their dead body....

I've been to my fair share of open casket funerals and I've began to see them as morbid. Putting make up on a corpse, glueing the eyes and lips shut and expressionless like a doll is just weird. Keep pictures and just keep casket closed

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 10:45 am

@LPorter101 wrote:

There are as many possible interpretations of the available evidence as there are stars in the heavens. Columbiners on Tumblr cling to their bullying-revenge narrative; Cullen spews his psychobabble; I dump everything into a circular file labeled "the perfect storm."

If I have proven anything in the last two decades, it is that nothing can be proven. In the end, no one perspective can satisfy everyone.

What I have learned about Columbine is that we all have our own Columbine and that it is the only thing we can start to understand. We cannot understand Columbine, we can only understand our Columbine and what it reveals about ourselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 4:08 pm

9:04 am Mountain Time. Unlike 20 years ago, it is not snowing. The sun is shining. 15 families are waking up without their kids. This is going to be the first full day of the new normal that students of Columbine will live with. Danny R's dad sees a picture of his son on the front page of the paper. In a couple of hours the bodies of 14 children will be taken from the school.

In A Mother's Reckoning Sue says that one of the mothers of a child who was killed was at the very same salon earlier in the day. Sue also performs this task but the community looks at it differently. She's looked at as a monster who doesn't seem to care.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 4:48 pm

The ceremony in full: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I've not watched it and don't know if I can stomach watching all of it. It's not that I don't want to listen, but I have a feeling most of it is recycled.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 4:54 pm

It was really. A lot of it was very, very recycled.
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 5:00 pm

Were you there?

I was!

I loved hearing from Sean Graves. He really powered through it.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2019 12:08 am

[quote="Screamingophelia"]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Mr. Sanders was the only one who was released?

I know it was just their bodies and they had no awareness but I’ve always felt awful thinking of them there. Especially Cassie’s family, she lived so close


Yeah Screamingophelia, completely agree. It’s unimaginable to know that your child, and their resting place, is so close you can see it from your home.

There are so many heartbreaking stories that came out of this tragedy. To me some of the saddest are Dave Sanders bleeding to death while a couple of students try to comfort him, Anne Marie’s mother taking her own life 6 months after the shooting, and all of the other shootings that were motivated by Columbine. No one also really thinks about the siblings of those killed.

I’ll probably be scoffed at this, but I also feel sorry for Eric and Dylan, as well as their parents/families. They were victims, too. All humans act in certain ways with particular reasons why.

No scoffing from me. I find myself torn but I feel sorry for eric and dylan and their families. I know it probably hurt Sue and Tom and I am sure even kathy and wayne that their kids were alone and did something horrible.

Any kid who feels so angry that they need to destroy peoples lives in the way that Eric and Dylan did break my heart.


You hit the nail on the head. Even though they committed this tragedy together, they probably never felt so alone. And it’s unimaginable to be that far gone in that state of mind to murder innocent people.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 24, 2019 3:26 am

20 years ago tomorrow. April 24, 1999 was a Saturday and marks from what I recall the first day of 14 funerals... let that sink in. 14 funerals in I believe 4 days.

Rachel and Dylan had their funerals on the same day. Dylan's friend wrote that she was torn between going to Rachel or his. She went to Rachel's but regrets it to this day. I think she said because it was like denying that Dylan meant something to her too.

John Tomlin is buried in Wisconsin. Dylan was cremated. The rest are laid to rest in the Denver area.

It was cold and snowy on that day. Tomorrow spring will be in the air, it will be sunny and warm. The world spins forward.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 24, 2019 3:41 am

I've made this thread a sticky, so it can now be found at the top of the page. Thank you again, Porter, for doing this thread on the 20th anniversary and everyone else who contributed to it, thank you as well Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 24, 2019 4:00 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I've made this thread a sticky, so it can now be found at the top of the page. Thank you again, Porter, for doing this thread on the 20th anniversary and everyone else who contributed to it, thank you as well Smile

You're welcome. It's still hard to believe that so much time has passed. It seems like just the other day to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 24, 2019 4:26 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I've made this thread a sticky, so it can now be found at the top of the page. Thank you again, Porter, for doing this thread on the 20th anniversary and everyone else who contributed to it, thank you as well Smile

You're welcome. It's still hard to believe that so much time has passed. It seems like just the other day to me.
I know. It goes by so fast. I remember coming home from school and sitting in the kitchen with my Grandmom watching the live footage of it. When I got into Columbine, it was after the 12th anniversary and now it's the 20th. It's crazy how fast it went by.

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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 10:59 am

Thanks everyone. Again I was MIA during all this. K was going to go to the memorial and then the closed private event in my sister's place but my auntie who raised me had a heart attack and I had to fly to Hawai'i where she unfortunately passed away a few days later. So i know I'm super late to the topic but reading this made me remember what that day was like for me.

Its hard to think 20 years ago on 4/20 I was in my 3rd grade classroom at Normandy Elementary having a normal day until the substitute teacher in the class room beside us came running in crying telling Mrs. B our teacher that there was a shooting over at Columbine. Mrs. B had a daughter there and she told us we had free time and she ran out of the room. She was a strict teacher so this wasn't normal for her. When she came back she was crying and said there was a problem up at the high school but it was being taken care of a s turned movies on for us and said we had to stay in our classroom for the day and locked the door. We were all super confused had no clue what was going on but were happy to watch movies even though they were boring old school ones. The teachers in our pod kept running in and out through the back opening that connected our classrooms whispering and crying with each other. Then one by one all my classmates started to leave as their parents came. Mrs. B had to one by one escort us down to the principals office to meet our parents. I was the last kid there and just saw my friends and classmates leave one by one. My mom finally picked me up way after the end of the school day distraught since she still hadnt made contact with my siblings. She said something bad had happened at their school. I thought maybe it was a fire or a tornado (I was a little kid and those were the only drills we did back then so i figured thats what had happened) I didnt get why all my teachers and my mom and all the adults everywhere were crying and so upset. She took me to Leawood the elementary school down the street from mine for a little bit I remember being so overwhelmed and confused by all the crying adults and crying teenagers. We didnt stay long my mom was frustrated that things were so unorganized and she hadn't been able to find Lindsey or Anthony so we finally went home. I thought my sister was in trouble like other times when my mom waited up for her to come home worried while she waited
but then she would be angry when she finally did. I remember when my sister came home that night though my mom wasn't mad at her she was so happy to see her she cried and cried d kept hugging her and saying how much she loved her. And my super cool big sister didn't roll her eyes or tall back but she did the same. All the police everywhere confused me too, we could see the Harriss house caddy corner and all the lights were on all night and there were police everywhere. My mom explained that the boy down the street went to school with Linds and Tony did some very bad things and hurt a bunch of other kids and teachers really bad.

I couldnt sleep that night, my room faced the back and could see the house with all the lights and police. I was afraid one of the bad boys would come hurt us. I heard my sister in her room beside me up all night talking on the phone and crying. In the middle of the night I remember she came into my room and crawled into bed with me and hugged me sobbing and said how much she loved me. I was confused but felt safe with her and finally fell asleep having no idea the magnitude of what had happend or how much it would affect my family.
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PostSubject: Re: Twenty years of Columbine   Twenty years of Columbine - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 21, 2019 6:41 am

It was revolting to leave Dave Sanders for a long time while those around him watched him bleed to death. Something else revolting was the way families of those killed found out. Sure, there were no protocols to follow at that time, no guidelines for how to respond to such an event. But Lauren Townsend’s family found out from the nightly news that evening (I believe before advocates showed up at her mother’s and stepfather’s house). Brian Robourgh found out when his child’s body was sprawled out on the front page of the next morning’s paper.

But something that no one talks about or remembers is the hell that Eric’s and Dylan’s parents went through on that day. The horror of having the police on their doorstep, having to sit outside while the police wreaked havoc inside trying to find dangerous items (ie explosives), the slow dawning realization of the extent of the event and the denial of your child being involved in any way, and the anxiety of not knowing their safety. Then given a little time to pack a few important personal effects- while being watched, having to try to find a place to run (like Sue says in her memoir, they couldn’t go to a hotel in fear of someone recognizing their last name, having to avoid the press, and still not knowing if your son is okay (perhaps the Harrises, since we know about the Klebolds). What a terrifying and surreal situation that would be.

Do we know anything at all about the Harrises right after the shooting? Did they stand outside their home like the Klebolds while police ransacked it? Where did they go that night and in the couple of days afterwards?

Also @screamingorphelia, in one of the very early posts you were asking about Eric’s birthday, if his birthday fell on the same day as his get together. His birthday would have fell on a Friday and we know he and a few close friends went bowling on a Saturday night, so his party get together was the next day.

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