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 When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?

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MarmaladeSkies
rik75
JDM87
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Moseley




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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 10:46 am

Did anyone try to or manage to escape? I know John Savage did but that was only after Dylan gave him the signal to leave. Whilst the two shooters were carrying out the shooting did anyone make a run for the exit?
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JDM87




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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 1:23 pm

I doubt so. E+D would've possibly shot anyone trying to escape w/out a hesitation of thought.
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Moseley




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 1:42 pm

But at certain points they were deep into the library and away from the exit. Surely somebody would have tried to run away?
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rik75




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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 2:30 pm

Moseley wrote:
Did anyone try to or manage to escape? I know John Savage did but that was only after Dylan gave him the signal to leave. Whilst the two shooters were carrying out the shooting did anyone make a run for the exit?
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 2:32 pm

Hi Moseley ,i posted this to give a clear view of the library ,adjoining rooms and exits.
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Moseley




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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 3:02 pm

I'm really bad at reading maps/diagrams. Where are the exits?
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rik75




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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 3:24 pm

Moseley wrote:
I'm really bad at reading maps/diagrams. Where are the exits?
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This is the Main entrance
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Moseley




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 3:28 pm

Evan Todd at the very least had a chance to escape by the looks of it, others seemed blocked off as they were deeper into the library I guess.
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 3:44 pm

Moseley wrote:
Evan Todd at the very least had a chance to escape by the looks of it, others seemed blocked off as they were deeper into the library I guess.
Todd survived 2 shotgun blasts and i'm sure his trousers were getting messy (literally)He witnessed the whole library massacre and heard kids being shot and killed. He heard all the screams and he was injured himself. Whilst under that desk Todd couldn't see E&D and he had no positive knowledge of their were about's. He could only hear their voices and the fire alarms didn't help him to clarify their positions. He stayed calm and cool. If he had stood up and took a chance ,he may of got away or got his head blown off. He stayed ,he spoke to Dylan in a calm manner he survived Smile
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 3:46 pm

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This is the north exit
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 4:03 pm

Moseley wrote:
Did anyone try to or manage to escape? I know John Savage did but that was only after Dylan gave him the signal to leave. Whilst the two shooters were carrying out the shooting did anyone make a run for the exit?
Have you read the library witness statements in the 11K report ? Hell of a lot of info. 563 pages. Shocked
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Moseley




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 4:20 pm

No I haven't, is it a long read? I may look at it bit by bit later. Have you got a link for it?
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 4:45 pm

Moseley wrote:
No I haven't, is it a long read? I may look at it bit by bit later. Have you got a link for it?
Evan Long - 11K


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Moseley




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 4:51 pm

Thanks Smile
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Moseley wrote:
Thanks Smile
Your welcome - the 11K report is a massive 10,937 pages. If you don't fancy reading from start to finish ,then i recommend the first parts i looked into which were the ' library injured ' and the ' library witnesses'. You can get real feel of exactly what happened in there that day. Checkout ' Harris and Klebold associates ' and you will get a hell of a lot of info about E&Ds friends ,work colleagues and school friends. Enjoy!
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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 04, 2013 7:51 pm

I wondered this, too. I am sure there was a lot of movement during the Library scene: Movements, screaming, etc. A lot of people seem to think all the students were patient under the tables. I've also wondered why no one seemed to have attempted to make a run for it while H/K may have had their direction elsewhere other than the entrences...
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Moseley




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 05, 2013 2:44 am

It's also hard to believe that some people were just left alone completely. I mean H/K never even interacted with them let alone shoot at them, maybe they were so caught up in the massacre that they miss a lot of students?
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Moseley




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 05, 2013 2:44 am

It's also hard to believe that some people were just left alone completely. I mean H/K never even interacted with them let alone shoot at them, maybe they were so caught up in the massacre that they miss a lot of students?
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 05, 2013 10:00 am

Moseley wrote:
It's also hard to believe that some people were just left alone completely. I mean H/K never even interacted with them let alone shoot at them, maybe they were so caught up in the massacre that they miss a lot of students?
I have always wondered why E&D didn't kill all the library kids. Upon entering ( without any shooting ) ,E or D could have calmly asked everyone to stand up and show themselves. They could have told everyone that they were looking for a certain individual and no one will get hurt. They could have said  ," we are looking for ****(some random name) stand up and lets see everyone. Nobody will get hurt ,stand up and you can leave ,all we want is ****". Everyone would have got up ( probably ) E&D could have told them all to sit down in a row and executed the lot of them. We know that E&D came into the library with guns blazing ( Eric shot at Evan Todd twice as Evan was hiding behind the copier stand next to the main desk and Eric was outside of the library ,shooting from outside the entrance doors )and naturally all the library kids were scared as hell and were unable to get up and run.
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 05, 2013 10:17 am

Moseley wrote:
It's also hard to believe that some people were just left alone completely. I mean H/K never even interacted with them let alone shoot at them, maybe they were so caught up in the massacre that they miss a lot of students?
Yep ,some were left alone and unharmed. Its difficult to " get into " E&D minds during the library massacre. Why were they so brutal and violent in the library? Maybe they were frustrated about the failure of the cafe bombs. Maybe it made them feel big and " Godlike " to shoot and kill little girls that were cowering under desks and tables. I cannot relate to E&D ( 1 reason being is that i WOULD NEVER feel good murdering little girls ) I think they took their frustrations out on the library kids ( frustrated because they had failed to blow up hundreds in the cafe )I would have loved to know what would have occurred if they were overpowered and had their guns ,bombs and knives taken off them in the library! If only E&D were jumped ( as they were reloading ) that would have been interesting. What could they do? Unarmed and vulnerable.!!
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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 05, 2013 11:43 am

The kids in the library were under tables and had no idea where E & D were which explains why nobody made a run for it.
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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 11, 2013 5:16 pm

I think that, like MarmaladeSkies said, they were all under tables and had no idea where E&D were. If you read the statements by those in the library, many of them never actually saw the shooters. They were hiding their faces and trying to stay quiet to avoid attracting attention. Also, the whole scene must have been so confusing and chaotic. Screaming, gunshots, shouting from E&D. I belive the first alarm was going off at this point. There was smoke from various pipe bombs and the guns being fired. I'm sure the entire situation was extremely disorienting.
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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 14, 2013 9:51 am

There were opportunities for the inhabitants of the library to escape. Eric and Dylan weren't exactly difficult to track, their explosions and semi-automatic fire in the main hallway easily told the library inhabitants where they were. Their window of escape would have been right when patti nielson got there. She should have done was Dave Sanders did and ordered everyone out, and to go down the parallel hallway that was not connected to the west entrance and then exit out the east or through some other exit. Eric and Dylan were distracted by deputy gardner initially, and then they went down the main hallway for approximately a minute, there was more than enough time to get everyone out before they began concentrating on the library hallway.

I do know that at several times they discussed how everyone was going to die anyways because of the cafeteria bombs. Perhaps that played a role in them not killing everyone in the library. Plus I think they were beginning to get bored. If you've ever played Grand Theft Auto IV for a long time, it gets boring. You can only walk into a hospital with a shotgun and kill everyone hiding behind their seats for so long before you just get plain bored.
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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 19, 2014 9:43 am

Moseley wrote:
Did anyone try to or manage to escape? I know John Savage did but that was only after Dylan gave him the signal to leave. Whilst the two shooters were carrying out the shooting did anyone make a run for the exit?

That would be a big noooo.
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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 19, 2014 5:07 pm

Hey she's back!!!
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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 19, 2014 5:08 pm

Well, last time I was here, there was no one here, so I stayed away until I got an e-mail notice saying my account was about to be deemed inactive Razz
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PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 19, 2014 5:10 pm

Well it's freaking AWESOME to have you back.... You prolly don't know me as I rarely posted in the other forums, but I do post a bit more here..... One thing I want to say to you is THANK YOU for always answering questions the best you can (even the jackasses you reply back to).
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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeWed Jan 22, 2014 1:32 pm

mattmatthew1337 wrote:
There were opportunities for the inhabitants of the library to escape. Eric and Dylan weren't exactly difficult to track, their explosions and semi-automatic fire in the main hallway easily told the library inhabitants where they were. Their window of escape would have been right when patti nielson got there. She should have done was Dave Sanders did and ordered everyone out, and to go down the parallel hallway that was not connected to the west entrance and then exit out the east or through some other exit. Eric and Dylan were distracted by deputy gardner initially, and then they went down the main hallway for approximately a minute, there was more than enough time to get everyone out before they began concentrating on the library hallway.

I always sorta thought that if Patti N. had just ordered everyone out, or, conversely, if Dave Sanders hadn't been shot in the back and got to the library first, that the casualties in the library could have been avoided.  In this alternate/revisionist scenario, I believe Eric and Dylan, if they had found the library deserted, still would have used the venue for shooting at the cops, but then they would have executed students hiding in the bathrooms and various classrooms until their bloodlust was satiated. Perhaps more students would have died in this alternative take on the rampage, who knows?  I often wonder if Patti has talked about her decision in the library and if she regrets it.
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When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Empty
PostSubject: Re: When Eric and Dylan entered the Library?   When Eric and Dylan entered the Library? Icon_minitimeThu Jan 23, 2014 9:33 am

It's so easy for any of us who were not there to come up with "would've should've could've" had any of us had been there. We're talking about two HEAVILY armed shooters, and you want to be the one getting up?
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