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 Eric, Dylan and racism

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PostSubject: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 29, 2019 2:56 pm

Do you think Eric and Dylan were racist towards other groups? I mean, I realize that Eric did express some racist views, but he kind of keeps changing all throughout hes journal. I cant see any mention of Dylan being racist other than here:

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 29, 2019 4:49 pm

I think it was a different time and they were trying to be edgy and hateful. They hated everyone..


I think there were a lot of factors. Plus friends even from Columbine who were Hispanic and mixed race spoke about Eric and Dylans kindness. They were not treated poorly and never heard them talk like that

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 29, 2019 8:53 pm

Norwegian wrote:
I cant see any mention of Dylan being racist other than here:

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You do know Dylan was the one who called Isiah "nigger", right?

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 2:51 am

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Having friends of another skin colour doesnt mean you cannot be racist.

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Only think I know was that one of them had referenced the n-word. Im not so sure Who did. I dont think he was targeted for being black, though. It seems to have been a random shooting.

Also, I see Eric as kind of a charmor. He would put on an act. Nothing can attest to this more than the van incident, where he publicly apologized to the owner, but vented hes frustration privately at how he hated the owner.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 5:09 am

Eric idolized Hitler so yeah, pretty racist. That or just incredibly stupid

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 5:43 am

Quote :
Only think I know was that one of them had referenced the n-word. Im not so sure Who did. I dont think he was targeted for being black, though. It seems to have been a random shooting.

Didn't Dylan call over to Eric something along the lines of "We have a N*gger over here" and then attempt to pull Isaiah out from under the table?

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 6:04 am

Supposedly one of them yeah. I cant recall who
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 8:28 am

I really was surprised at how Dylan ended up becoming a racist. It really makes my heart hurt actually. I am not a Dylan apologist but I do think Eric probably manipulated Dylan into becoming more racist. Dylan was part Jewish, so I can't imagine he condoned any Nazi behaviour before becoming friends with Eric. Furthermore, Dylan's parents are quite liberal and tolerant people, so he wasn't raised in that intolerant environment like Dylann Roof for example.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 10:02 am

"racism bad" the dumbest forced meme in the history of forced memes and nobody is fooled by people pretending they care. I don't know what it means other than calling a white man a shitheaded boogereater for wanting to exist as a white man, and nothing is dumber than perpetual "but is toast racist?" If it wasn't for the myth of "racism", the story would not have blown up like it did, since Dylan used the forbidden word and it happened on the date of the forbidden comic book supervillain.

Did they believe in racial differences? Pretty obviously. It's question begging to say everything is environmental. Dylan could just as well have reacted against his environment as so many do. Being raised by a suffocating liberal mother will make one a 'right wing extremist'. Dylan's the one who called someone the forbidden heresy word, and I believe he's also the one talking about ebonics on the basement tapes. He also strikes me as the smarter one, so it's not surprising to me he'd be more aggravated by races he considers dumb.

Then of course Eric kept a list of racial slurs and was into the Nazis (not grade school pejorative: National Socialists. Could never get away with "commies" in a school paper) but it seemed more because of their aesthetic and Wolfenstein 3D and because he was told they were 'racist' and 'racism' is bad.  

He doesn't seem to me all that aware of the Jewish question, as one would expect from a 90s teenager.  His only reference to jews in the journal is just "hope no jews find the bombs", which is just trying to be funny and could just as well be "shitheads" or some other it seems to me. He doesn't talk about Holocaust revisionism (on the contrary), or Jews being the international race pushing internationalism everywhere they go, or Jews being behind Communism, or "racism/sexism/homophobia" memes, code for the demonization of white, men, who are straight and Christian rooted in the meme of "anti semitism" and the holocaust, that white nationalism in white countries is forbidden but supporting Israel and Jewish nationalism is mandatory

Def in "fangirl" territory when it's "they couldn't have been racist Sad" (whatever that means). When it's E&D being explicit, they are being edgelords. When it's Adam Lanza being an edgelord researching pedophilia and disavowing it, it's not him being an edgelord.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 11:16 am

It’s not a fan girl thing to explain what it was like in the late 90s in a small town.

People were not as PC back then.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 12:00 pm

I don't know what I said that pertains to 'what it was like in the 90s in a small town', as if I wasn't in one then.

The point is Eric & Dylan could have said the point of the massacre was to kill all traitors and foreigners and taken a clipboard with them asking people about their opinions on multiculturalism before shooting them in the face and people would say they're just being edgy they don't really believe anything; while e. g. Adam Lanza could say he's researching cannibalism because it's interesting but he doesn't want to eat anyone and people would say he must be a cannibal he couldn't just be an edgelord. If you don't like the term "fan girl", I'll say "cope".
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 12:47 pm

Theory goes that Dylan had allowed himself to be Erics follower. This theory comes from Peter Langman and Dave Cullen. Jeff Kass disagrees with this suggesting that he was not as much of a follower as people made him out to be.

So IDK what is correct here, but I guess its possible that he was much of a follower. I know that Brooks Brown described him as a follower of Eric.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 1:37 pm

I don't think either had a coherent world view or philosophy. Eric seemed to get how dumb racism was in his "What I Hate" column on his website. Dylan was a fan of DJ Spooky and quoted Tupac lyrics (badly) in his school planner. Littleton was overwhelmingly white, so they didn't even have that many interactions with people of different ethnic backgrounds.

That said, Isaiah was most certainly singled out and murdered due to the color of his skin.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 3:14 pm

He contradicts himself all the time. At one point he rages on about how racism is bad:

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Only to say something of completely the opposite:

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 3:35 pm

cakeman wrote:
I don't know what I said that pertains to 'what it was like in the 90s in a small town', as if I wasn't in one then.

The point is Eric & Dylan could have said the point of the massacre was to kill all traitors and foreigners and taken a clipboard with them asking people about their opinions on multiculturalism before shooting them in the face and people would say they're just being edgy they don't really believe anything; while e. g. Adam Lanza could say he's researching cannibalism because it's interesting but he doesn't want to eat anyone and people would say he must be a cannibal he couldn't just be an edgelord. If you don't like the term "fan girl", I'll say "cope".

I never said anything about Adam Lanza.

I also never said Eric and Dylan “couldn’t” be racist. I just don’t think they were inherently racist, they were just full of hate in general.

My thoughts are more in line with what W.A.R said above.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 3:57 pm

They were, but Erics journal gives some hint towards racism. If you say that blacks are inferior that seems pretty racist imo. I dont think Isaiah was targeted because he was black though. They would target Just about anyone, and insult anyone over anything during the shooting. Another guy was supposedly called 'four eyes', and they allowed for Evan Todd to live. Even though he was a jock, but I believe that he pulled hes White hat off. As far as the conversation goes, it seems like he knew them, yet they spared him.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 5:38 pm

I don't think they would've attempted to pull him out from under the table had he been white. Isaiah was the only student they did this to.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 30, 2019 9:38 pm

During his Diversion interview, Sue wrote:
Dylan is introverted and has grown up partly isolated from those who are different in age, culture, or other factors. He is often angry or sullen and behaviors seem disrespectful to others. He seems intolerant of those in authority and intolerant of others.
She crossed out "partly" and "intolerant of those in authority"

To me, it suggests that Sue noticed that Dylan was not as accepting of people who were different from him. This may (and in my opinion, does) include those who were not white.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 12:55 am

Nope, and thats irrelevant anyway. They taunted Daniel Mauser, too, before shooting him. They allowed a jock, Evan Todd, to survive. So this was a random shooting. It didnt really matter cause they wanted to kill people. It was a random shooting.
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PostSubject: Irony?   Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 5:49 am

I always wondered if the "I hate racism" Eric rant was actually ironic. He goes on in the journal to discuss how "blacks are different" and such.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:16 am

Norwegian wrote:
Nope, and thats irrelevant anyway. They taunted Daniel Mauser, too, before shooting him. They allowed a jock, Evan Todd, to survive. So this was a random shooting. It didnt really matter cause they wanted to kill people. It was a random shooting.

..but why specifically attempt to drag Isaiah out and no-one else? If after taunting Mauser ("Nice glasses") they had attempted to pull him out from under the table to shoot him instead, I'd still wonder the same thing. It just seems much more personal.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:17 am

Was it Eric who said "Nice glasses?"

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:23 am

Gold Digger wrote:
Was it Eric who said "Nice glasses?"

yes

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:25 am

No No No

God, it's so upsetting to think about what they said during the massacre. One thing that annoys me is people are saying Eric was silent. he wasn't. He was cruel during the attack and laughing. Examples: "Peekaboo", "Nice glasses", "quit your bitching".

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:46 am

Gold Digger wrote:
I always wondered if the "I hate racism" Eric rant was actually ironic. He goes on in the journal to discuss how "blacks are different" and such.


I think it's because Eric's mental image of what a racist is would be a shabbily dressed Klansmen with rotting teeth, a poor vocabulary, and is hooked on either booze or drugs. In essence, the kind of person Eric would consider a failure of natural selection.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:54 am

Good point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:55 am

QuestionMark wrote:
Gold Digger wrote:
I always wondered if the "I hate racism" Eric rant was actually ironic. He goes on in the journal to discuss how "blacks are different" and such.


I think it's because Eric's mental image of what a racist is would be a shabbily dressed Klansmen with rotting teeth, a poor vocabulary, and is hooked on either booze or drugs. In essence, the kind of person Eric would consider a failure of natural selection.  

Yes, I think the labels that people may put on Eric nowadays would be an insult to him. He felt he was better than "incels"etc..

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:57 am

Eric wasn't an incel though, he was good looking and had girlfriends even though they didn't last (except maybe Susan).

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 8:59 am

Gold Digger wrote:
Eric wasn't an incel though, he was good looking and had girlfriends even though they didn't last (except maybe Susan).

I didn't say he was... however there has been discussions about if e and d would have been considered incels and cerain other things.

I feel like no one is reading my posts and putting words in my mouth. affraid

Also this discussion seems to be one sided, if you don't think Eric and Dylan were racist, you are a fan girl...

So why ask the question? Your mind has already been made up.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 9:03 am

I'm sorry, that came out wrong. Yeah, I hate that too, when people put words into my mouth. Happens ALL the time with me, especially with online communication.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 9:04 am

Gold Digger wrote:
I'm sorry, that came out wrong. Yeah, I hate that too, when people put words into my mouth. Happens ALL the time with me, especially with online communication.

It happens Sad

No worries, I think I may be in more of a crabby mood than I thought today.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 9:29 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
Gold Digger wrote:
I always wondered if the "I hate racism" Eric rant was actually ironic. He goes on in the journal to discuss how "blacks are different" and such.


I think it's because Eric's mental image of what a racist is would be a shabbily dressed Klansmen with rotting teeth, a poor vocabulary, and is hooked on either booze or drugs. In essence, the kind of person Eric would consider a failure of natural selection.  

Yes, I think the labels that people may put on Eric nowadays would be an insult to him. He felt he was better than "incels"etc..

I agree. I think if Eric was alive today he'd consider Elliot Roger to be a total loser, a complete failure of a person.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 9:57 am

Wasn't Eric's best friend in Plattsburgh Black?

I know thats kinda cliche, but the neo-nazi stuff seemed to come out of nowhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 10:12 am

W.A.R. wrote:
Wasn't Eric's best friend in Plattsburgh Black?

I know thats kinda cliche, but the neo-nazi stuff seemed to come out of nowhere.

Yea.

I think he was doing a report on World War II and got really interested in learning. Maybe he used it to kind of seem intimidating?

I agree though it came at a nowhere. It doesn’t even seem that Dylan had much of an interest in it I feel like he said things during bowling about Hitler just to be an asshole.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 11:40 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
It doesn’t even seem that Dylan had much of an interest in it I feel like he said things during bowling   about Hitler just to be an asshole.

I think this is one thing we can say for sure Eric influenced Dylan on.

Dylan had hid that he was part Jewish until he let it slip by accident by mentioning passover.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 2:10 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
W.A.R. wrote:
Wasn't Eric's best friend in Plattsburgh Black?

I know thats kinda cliche, but the neo-nazi stuff seemed to come out of nowhere.

Yea.

I think he was doing a report on World War II and got really interested in learning. Maybe he used it to kind of seem intimidating?

I agree though it came at a nowhere. It doesn’t even seem that Dylan had much of an interest in it I feel like he said things during bowling   about Hitler just to be an asshole.
He took German for years before he ever did the report on the Nazis. He did the report because the Nazis interested him, he wasn't interested in the Nazis because of the report. He didn't pick the Nazis out of a hat. For a guy obsessed with Doom, the easy, obvious answer for how he would become desensitized to anti-Nazi propaganda pre-internet memes and get interested in German is because of Wolfenstein 3D.

Also, it's pretty funny how the 'racism' meme has people think Germany had a black problem. It also wasn't "Neo nazi", whatever that means, it was "classical nazi" or whatever. Hitler wasn't "neo nazi", he was "nazi".

Also every 13 year old is conditioned to be an "anti racist". Eric himself said his opinions had changed over the years. I am confident that was one. Everybody who is a "Nazi" is a convert. I also have to imagine planning the massacre and their suicide had them care a lot less about the opinions society demanded of them.

And yeah obviously they both did it to be subversive, though I think they also probably believed there was truth in what was subversive. Dylan did his report on Charles Manson, who wore a swastika on his face. Dylan wore one on his face for "spirit week".
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 3:46 am

Gold Digger wrote:
I really was surprised at how Dylan ended up becoming a racist. It really makes my heart hurt actually. I am not a Dylan apologist but I do think Eric probably manipulated Dylan into becoming more racist. Dylan was part Jewish, so I can't imagine he condoned any Nazi behaviour before becoming friends with Eric. Furthermore, Dylan's parents are quite liberal and tolerant people, so he wasn't raised in that intolerant environment like Dylann Roof for example.
Dylann wasn't raised in an intolerant environment.

He admitted this himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 5:13 am

I don't think they were racist. I think they may have said racist stuff to sound even more hateful and mean and to give themselves an edgy style. And maybe sometimes they slightly thought what they meant but it was probably because racism is a form of hate and so they adapted their hate to the target. Any kind of hate was good for them, however in the end no matter if you were black, white, homosexual or straight, male or female, they hated you. The fact that they kept contradicting themselves about racism shows that, as Screamingophelia said, it was not inherent to them. However what was inherent to them was hate. I also think that when Eric said he hated racism, it was not out of sympathy, tolerance and kindness, on the contrary. It was probably because he thought it was stupid to hate someone only for his skin colour whereas everyone should be hated, except for a small portion or worthy people among whom racists were probably not in his opinion. It was not his criterion for natural selection.

I think however that Eric was genuinely interested in Nazis and Hitler but because they manage to destroy a huge part of society. He was probably not interested in the killing of jews, but just in the killing itself, in violence. And iirc he even said that what he didn't like with Nazis was the structured and powerful government so he was critical of it.

I don't think we can label them as racist only focusing on what they said and wrote. We cannot know what they were truly thinking and can only judge on their actions. Given that they didn't kill only non-white people, or made blacks suffer more, there is no reason to be 100% sure that they were racist, just like there is no reason to be 100% sure they were not. But what we can know is that racism was not their motive.

There is nothing fan-girly, justifying or forgiving in saying that I don't think they were really racist. In the end they still killed 13 innocent people, them not being racist is not a mitigating factor.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 5:35 am

Neah wrote:
I don't think they were racist. I think they may have said racist stuff to sound even more hateful and mean and to give themselves an edgy style. And maybe sometimes they slightly thought what they meant but it was probably because racism is a form of hate and so they adapted their hate to the target. Any kind of hate was good for them, however in the end no matter if you were black, white, homosexual or straight, male or female, they hated you. The fact that they kept contradicting themselves about racism shows that, as Screamingophelia said, it was not inherent to them. However what was inherent to them was hate. I also think that when Eric said he hated racism, it was not out of sympathy, tolerance and kindness, on the contrary. It was probably because he thought it was stupid to hate someone only for his skin colour whereas everyone should be hated, except for a small portion or worthy people among whom racists were probably not in his opinion. It was not his criterion for natural selection.

I think however that Eric was genuinely interested in Nazis and Hitler but because they manage to destroy a huge part of society. He was probably not interested in the killing of jews, but just in the killing itself, in violence. And iirc he even said that what he didn't like with Nazis was the structured and powerful government so he was critical of it.

I don't think we can label them as racist only focusing on what they said and wrote. We cannot know what they were truly thinking and can only judge on their actions. Given that they didn't kill only non-white people, or made blacks suffer more, there is no reason to be 100% sure that they were racist, just like there is no reason to be 100% sure they were not. But what we can know is that racism was not their motive.

There is nothing fan-girly, justifying or forgiving in saying that I don't think they were really racist. In the end they still killed 13 innocent people, them not being racist is not a mitigating factor.

This!!

Also the swatsika on the face was only seen by one person who was afraid of Dylan and didn’t like him...

I doubt Robyn, Nate or Devon wouldn’t have questioned why he had it on his face...so i doubt it happened.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 6:15 am

Screamingophelia wrote:

Also the swatsika on the face was only seen by one person who was afraid of Dylan and didn’t like him...

I doubt Robyn, Nate or Devon wouldn’t have questioned why he had it on his face...so i doubt it happened.

Oh you know, having a swastika on your face is pretty common, I don't see why they would have asked about it... Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 6:18 am

Neah wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:

Also the swatsika on the face was only seen by one person who was afraid of Dylan and didn’t like him...

I doubt Robyn, Nate or Devon wouldn’t have questioned why he had it on his face...so i doubt it happened.

Oh you know, having a swastika on your face is pretty common, I don't see why they would have asked about it... Rolling Eyes

True, true... I have tinfoil on my head today and no one said anything on the subway. They must know it’s nation tin foil day.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 11:13 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
Neah wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:

Also the swatsika on the face was only seen by one person who was afraid of Dylan and didn’t like him...

I doubt Robyn, Nate or Devon wouldn’t have questioned why he had it on his face...so i doubt it happened.

Oh you know, having a swastika on your face is pretty common, I don't see why they would have asked about it... Rolling Eyes

True, true... I have tinfoil on my head today and no one said anything on the subway. They must know it’s nation tin foil day.

I know you kid but it is April Fool's Day.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 11:15 am

QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Neah wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:

Also the swatsika on the face was only seen by one person who was afraid of Dylan and didn’t like him...

I doubt Robyn, Nate or Devon wouldn’t have questioned why he had it on his face...so i doubt it happened.

Oh you know, having a swastika on your face is pretty common, I don't see why they would have asked about it... Rolling Eyes

True, true... I have tinfoil on my head today and no one said anything on the subway. They must know it’s nation tin foil day.

I know you kid but it is April Fool's Day.

Drat! lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 11:59 am

Neah wrote:
I don't think they were racist. I think they may have said racist stuff to sound even more hateful and mean and to give themselves an edgy style. And maybe sometimes they slightly thought what they meant but it was probably because racism is a form of hate and so they adapted their hate to the target. Any kind of hate was good for them, however in the end no matter if you were black, white, homosexual or straight, male or female, they hated you. The fact that they kept contradicting themselves about racism shows that, as Screamingophelia said, it was not inherent to them. However what was inherent to them was hate. I also think that when Eric said he hated racism, it was not out of sympathy, tolerance and kindness, on the contrary. It was probably because he thought it was stupid to hate someone only for his skin colour whereas everyone should be hated, except for a small portion or worthy people among whom racists were probably not in his opinion. It was not his criterion for natural selection.

I think however that Eric was genuinely interested in Nazis and Hitler but because they manage to destroy a huge part of society. He was probably not interested in the killing of jews, but just in the killing itself, in violence. And iirc he even said that what he didn't like with Nazis was the structured and powerful government so he was critical of it.

I don't think we can label them as racist only focusing on what they said and wrote. We cannot know what they were truly thinking and can only judge on their actions. Given that they didn't kill only non-white people, or made blacks suffer more, there is no reason to be 100% sure that they were racist, just like there is no reason to be 100% sure they were not. But what we can know is that racism was not their motive.

There is nothing fan-girly, justifying or forgiving in saying that I don't think they were really racist. In the end they still killed 13 innocent people, them not being racist is not a mitigating factor.

"Racism" is justifying the holy unquestionably good civil rights movement by appealing to the big evil unquestionably bad Nazis. You won't find the term in encyclopedias before the 1960s.  There is something really laughable about taking "racism" seriously and asking "but is it racist?" and thinking good and evil is defined by whether or not something is "racist", which is the whole reason for trying to stop them from being called "racist". Everybody sees it. Jeffrey Dahmer bent over backwards to say he wasn't "racist", because wanting to be a white person is much worse than cannibalizing people. It's also worse than mass murder to the normie brain. To them, Dylan saying the magic word to a black person was worse than all of the deaths. It's so bad it can't even be defined other than white people bad. Like asking if they were really shitheads. Everybody gets an opinion  on whether they personally deem them to be shitheads. Real deep  thought.

"Skin color" Literally nobody on the planet ever once for a millisecond thought race was just "skin color". I'd get arrested if I pretended I was black on official forms whether I had a tan or not. "Skin color" is the marker for the genome-wide differences, much as a penis is the marker for a male, and chopping it off won't remove your Y chromosome, nor bleaching your skin change where your ancestors evolved.

"Were they racist" Meaningless. Nobody honestly cares, they just want to look virtuous
"Did they recognize racial differences?" Yeah obviously, so what
"Were they fascinated by the National Socialists" Yes
"Did they think blacks were dumb" Yes

And 'contradicting' themselves is easily accounted for. When he was 16 or whatever he agreed with the tv, and as he grew up he no longer did.  This is true for 100% of "racists".   They live in your world, you don't live in theirs.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 01, 2019 1:54 pm

@cakeman I think you are basing your interpretation of their opinion on your own opinion. What most people here mean by racism is "thinking other races are inferior", not simply "thinking that different races exist" which is your meaning of racism if I understood correctly. Most people wouldn't care if Eric and Dylan only thought that there are differences between races, this is just a science issue. However they care if they thought white people were superior to others which allowed them to be mean to others races, which is a moral issue. So sure, "race" is not just skin colour, we wouldn't need another term for that then, but skin colour is the marker as you said, so I don't see what is wrong in mentioning it given that it is an obvious way to differentiate "races", unlike "genomes".

And what you said about most people acting as if they thought being a racist was worse than killing people is exactly what I said in my last paragraph. I actually don't care if they were racist or not and it wouldn't change my opinion about them. We have something much more serious to blame them for. I simply gave my opinion about what I think they were or were not.

And actually, it seems more "fan-girly" to me to want them to be racist simply because YOU are probably racist.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 31, 2020 3:19 pm

I dont think that they singled out anyone in particular. Its just the wrong place at the wrong time. I see it more as Dylan: follower Eric: hates on just about everyone thats part of the human race. Admired Hitler because of Hitlers idea of natural selection. But he admired natural selection as a solution for killing mankind. Not jews or anyone that isnt white, but mankind. Its possible that Dylan may have catered in order to Impress Eric

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 31, 2020 3:31 pm

cakeman wrote:
Neah wrote:
I don't think they were racist. I think they may have said racist stuff to sound even more hateful and mean and to give themselves an edgy style. And maybe sometimes they slightly thought what they meant but it was probably because racism is a form of hate and so they adapted their hate to the target. Any kind of hate was good for them, however in the end no matter if you were black, white, homosexual or straight, male or female, they hated you. The fact that they kept contradicting themselves about racism shows that, as Screamingophelia said, it was not inherent to them. However what was inherent to them was hate. I also think that when Eric said he hated racism, it was not out of sympathy, tolerance and kindness, on the contrary. It was probably because he thought it was stupid to hate someone only for his skin colour whereas everyone should be hated, except for a small portion or worthy people among whom racists were probably not in his opinion. It was not his criterion for natural selection.

I think however that Eric was genuinely interested in Nazis and Hitler but because they manage to destroy a huge part of society. He was probably not interested in the killing of jews, but just in the killing itself, in violence. And iirc he even said that what he didn't like with Nazis was the structured and powerful government so he was critical of it.

I don't think we can label them as racist only focusing on what they said and wrote. We cannot know what they were truly thinking and can only judge on their actions. Given that they didn't kill only non-white people, or made blacks suffer more, there is no reason to be 100% sure that they were racist, just like there is no reason to be 100% sure they were not. But what we can know is that racism was not their motive.

There is nothing fan-girly, justifying or forgiving in saying that I don't think they were really racist. In the end they still killed 13 innocent people, them not being racist is not a mitigating factor.

"Racism" is justifying the holy unquestionably good civil rights movement by appealing to the big evil unquestionably bad Nazis. You won't find the term in encyclopedias before the 1960s.  There is something really laughable about taking "racism" seriously and asking "but is it racist?" and thinking good and evil is defined by whether or not something is "racist", which is the whole reason for trying to stop them from being called "racist". Everybody sees it. Jeffrey Dahmer bent over backwards to say he wasn't "racist", because wanting to be a white person is much worse than cannibalizing people. It's also worse than mass murder to the normie brain. To them, Dylan saying the magic word to a black person was worse than all of the deaths. It's so bad it can't even be defined other than white people bad. Like asking if they were really shitheads. Everybody gets an opinion  on whether they personally deem them to be shitheads. Real deep  thought.

"Skin color" Literally nobody on the planet ever once for a millisecond thought race was just "skin color". I'd get arrested if I pretended I was black on official forms whether I had a tan or not. "Skin color" is the marker for the genome-wide differences, much as a penis is the marker for a male, and chopping it off won't remove your Y chromosome, nor bleaching your skin change where your ancestors evolved.

"Were they racist" Meaningless. Nobody honestly cares, they just want to look virtuous
"Did they recognize racial differences?" Yeah obviously, so what
"Were they fascinated by the National Socialists" Yes
"Did they think blacks were dumb" Yes

And 'contradicting' themselves is easily accounted for. When he was 16 or whatever he agreed with the tv, and as he grew up he no longer did.  This is true for 100% of "racists".   They live in your world, you don't live in theirs.

Plenty of good reasons why racism should be taken seriously. For one, it affects people. Second, people are dehumanized to the point where they are no longer regarded as human. I dont think the whole racism- thing was really that much of an issue with Eric. They seem more like ramblings of a hateful and agressive teenager in my book
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Aug 01, 2021 1:32 am

Racism, these days, doesnt simply refer to skin colour, but ethnicity, culture, etc.

You have the old fashioned form of racism, which is dividing groups into 'less intelligent' etc.

But bowads it also refers to culture, ethnicity and so on
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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeSun Oct 31, 2021 4:37 am

QuestionMark wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
I cant see any mention of Dylan being racist other than here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You do know Dylan was the one who called Isiah "nigger", right?


I dont think it matters. I believe that its likely that its something he just said. Other sources have stated that Dylan was intimidated by Erics fascination with nazism.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric, Dylan and racism    Eric, Dylan and racism  Icon_minitimeMon Nov 01, 2021 4:40 pm

Eric himself wrote on his website or journal can't remember which that he would be friends with blacks, latinos, etc but only if they were "cool", whatever he meant by that.

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