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 Eric and Dylan had to do it?

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dereknocturnal




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Eric and Dylan had to do it? Empty
PostSubject: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 3:04 pm

This is something I wondered about after reading the basement tape transcripts. Why do you think both Eric and Dylan said they had to it or had to do what they had to do? Eric said it in his car alone talking about his fellow workers and coolios he was sorry but they had to do what they had to do something along those lines, and while Eric was apologizing in his final message on 4/20 Dylan chimed in that they had to do what they had to do. Eric also mentioned to Susan under different circumstances things would've been different. Why did they feel such a strong NEED to attack the school? We most likely will never know the answer since none of us will see/hear the basement or Nixon tapes but I'd like to hear opinions.
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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 3:42 pm

I like this question. There are a lot of possibilities. I think after a while they convinced themselves that they had to do it. But the why is something really interesting to talk about.

I think it comes down to power in a way. They felt powerless against the circumstances they felt. They felt trapped in their lives and didn’t see any other way out. They wanted people to realize what they were feeling in the most destructive way possible.

Even if we have felt Powerless, lost, depressed, ostracized etc. most of us never had more than just a fleeting thought of hurting somebody Or making an offhanded comment like oh I’m going to just kill that person if they’re late again I don’t think we can never completely understand what was going on in their heads but we could definitely speculate. I think they absolutely fed off of each other too.

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dereknocturnal




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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 5:31 pm

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I enjoyed reading your opinions on the topic. And I absolutely agree about them feeding off each other. It seems that even if Susan had shown massive affection toward Eric and wanted to make more plans with him after 4/20 it just couldn't happen because he was so invested in NBK, there was no pulling out, there were no second thoughts and even if either teen had second thoughts it was overwhelmed by the other. Their obligation was to go through with the mission. I think in hiding so much information the authorities actually did themselves a disservice, speculation is fucking powerful and they became notorious, infamous if you will because of the lack of transparency .
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 6:04 pm

You guys are absolutely correct. They were too deep into NBK to turn back now. The “storm” that the two of them created amongst themselves was just too large to be reasonable and say “this is stupid”. They felt this was the only way to make their point and show how “godlike” they thought that they were. And so true, their notoriety and being infamous does have partly to do because of jeffco and how this was all handled. The media played a large role as well in that fact too. Eric says “more rage more rage keep building on it”. These two fed off of each other until they probably believed that what they were doing was right. That it was something that had to be done. Eric supposedly mentions that he wished he was a psychopath so he wouldn’t have remorse; that shows he knew it was wrong and he’d feel bad, but in his mind it just had to be done. The point had to be made.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 8:54 pm

Excellent points. Eric mentioning that he wished he was a sociopath is incredibly valid. He knew he would hurt the people he loved, he knew it was "wrong" in a public sense, but he HAD to go through with NBK it wasn't a choice anymore. I just cant figure out why it wasn't a choice I mean I understand the power of "peer pressure" but I don't think Dylan was much of a pressure against Eric to be honest, I have heard the points that point at Dylan as being the motivating factor behind NBK. that may have been true, though I don't think Eric's "alpha" personality would've cared much if he let Dylan down and didn't go through with NBK but he felt he HAD to.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 9:08 pm

One more thing, don't you think Eric would've gone ahead with NBK solo? but Dylan not so sure. Dylan may have ended his life in his bedroom alone. I know we can be convinced on what is reality by media depictions but even from the journal entries it seemed Eric was intent on killing period! but Dylan was self loathing. I look back on the analogy of Dylan killed so he could die and Eric died so he could kill. I have no idea if this is the truth but from the outside looking in it sure fuckin looks like it. Eric definitely seemed to be more interested in killing people and destroying shit and Dylan was more like ok I can kill these people but only if I can die afterwards. Idk but damn Columbine allows for a ton of speculation.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 11:11 pm

Now here’s a topic that really has a drawn line. Some people think Eric would’ve done it with or without Dylan and others believe that he wouldn’t. I believe the latter. From the outside a quick look at Eric’s writing compared to Dylan’s does seem like Eric is the homicidal ringleader. If you dig deeper into it you can see that Dylan is the first to talk of going NBK with the girl of his dreams. It’s only later that Eric starts up his journal all gung-ho about NBK. My opinion on it is Eric was an angry, low self esteem young man who only wanted to be accepted by the cool kids. Dylan def has qualities of depression and suicide mixed with homicidal thoughts from the get go. These two fed off of their anger and NBK became a reality. Eric got pumped up to finally be a part of something and Dylan was getting to do something he’s always wanted. Would Eric have done it without Dylan? I don’t think so. Would Dylan have done it without Eric? Yes, I could see that.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 11:27 pm

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Now here’s a topic that really has a drawn line. Some people think Eric would’ve done it with or without Dylan and others believe that he wouldn’t. I believe the latter. From the outside a quick look at Eric’s writing compared to Dylan’s does seem like Eric is the homicidal ringleader. If you dig deeper into it you can see that Dylan is the first to talk of going NBK with the girl of his dreams. It’s only later that Eric starts up his journal all gung-ho about NBK. My opinion on it is Eric was an angry, low self esteem young man who only wanted to be accepted by the cool kids. Dylan def has qualities of depression and suicide mixed with homicidal thoughts from the get go. These two fed off of their anger and NBK became a reality. Eric got pumped up to finally be a part of something and Dylan was getting to do something he’s always wanted. Would Eric have done it without Dylan? I don’t think so. Would Dylan have done it without Eric? Yes, I could see that.
I agree almost entirely with this, except the whole Dylan doing it without Eric. No way. Dylan if anything would've tried to pull a school shooting in his college years like Cho did, but definitely not a bombing as they planned it to be. The kid was too lazy. He barely put any time and effort into NBK. Compared to Eric? Who invested a shit ton of times and with his bombs that he loved so much that he named them. Meanwhile, Dylan was still laughing his ass off mowing down innocent kids even when the bombs failed to detonate, because he didn't give a single fuck anymore.

The truth is neither would not have done without the other. I don't think necessarily think there's a true leader or follower, but make no mistake Eric Harris planned that bombing and put the most work into the attack. Dylan only talked about going on a shooting spree with Zack Heckler and his unidentified "love". Eric wanted to bomb and blow up Columbine High School. I definitely see Dylan bringing it up first one day, and Eric thought really hard about it and after constantly given no respect, ripped on by even younger classmates, and failures with women he probably thought really hard and thought "...That is a good fucking idea". Dylan definitely put the thought into Eric's head. But to me Eric looked up to Dylan in a way much more than Dylan did with Eric.

Eric wasn't even his legitimate best friend. Heckler was. Eric needed Dylan more than the other way around. All of Eric's friends were Dylan's first. One thing people must know is that when Eric started dressing in all black it is because he was following Chris Morris and tried being cool, but Dylan started dressing like that first, because he liked the look of it, and he liked being different from others. Another thing that sticks out is their Diversion files. D

Eric says Dylan is his "best friend". Dylan said Eric was just his "good friend". Just remember that. Dylan used Eric just to die, but by no means was Dylan Klebold just suicidal. He was homicidal and had homicidal thoughts. No actual suicidal person will go out their way to attack and try and blow up a building and kill people. They'd try to kill themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 11:55 pm

lol wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Now here’s a topic that really has a drawn line. Some people think Eric would’ve done it with or without Dylan and others believe that he wouldn’t. I believe the latter. From the outside a quick look at Eric’s writing compared to Dylan’s does seem like Eric is the homicidal ringleader. If you dig deeper into it you can see that Dylan is the first to talk of going NBK with the girl of his dreams. It’s only later that Eric starts up his journal all gung-ho about NBK. My opinion on it is Eric was an angry, low self esteem young man who only wanted to be accepted by the cool kids. Dylan def has qualities of depression and suicide mixed with homicidal thoughts from the get go. These two fed off of their anger and NBK became a reality. Eric got pumped up to finally be a part of something and Dylan was getting to do something he’s always wanted. Would Eric have done it without Dylan? I don’t think so. Would Dylan have done it without Eric? Yes, I could see that.
I agree almost entirely with this, except the whole Dylan doing it without Eric. No way. Dylan if anything would've tried to pull a school shooting in his college years like Cho did, but definitely not a bombing as they planned it to be. The kid was too lazy. He barely put any time and effort into NBK. Compared to Eric? Who invested a shit ton of times and with his bombs that he loved so much that he named them. Meanwhile, Dylan was still laughing his ass off mowing down innocent kids even when the bombs failed to detonate, because he didn't give a single fuck anymore.

The truth is neither would not have done without the other. I don't think necessarily think there's a true leader or follower, but make no mistake Eric Harris planned that bombing and put the most work into the attack. Dylan only talked about going on a shooting spree with Zack Heckler and his unidentified "love". Eric wanted to bomb and blow up Columbine High School. I definitely see Dylan bringing it up first one day, and Eric thought really hard about it and after constantly given no respect, ripped on by even younger classmates, and failures with women he probably thought really hard and thought "...That is a good fucking idea". Dylan definitely put the thought into Eric's head. But to me Eric looked up to Dylan in a way much more than Dylan did with Eric.

Eric wasn't even his legitimate best friend. Heckler was. Eric needed Dylan more than the other way around. All of Eric's friends were Dylan's first. One thing people must know is that when Eric started dressing in all black it is because he was following Chris Morris and tried being cool, but Dylan started dressing like that first, because he liked the look of it, and he liked being different from others. Another thing that sticks out is their Diversion files. D

Eric says Dylan is his "best friend". Dylan said Eric was just his "good friend". Just remember that. Dylan used Eric just to die, but by no means was Dylan Klebold just suicidal. He was homicidal and had homicidal thoughts. No actual suicidal person will go out their way to attack and try and blow up a building and kill people. They'd try to kill themselves.


You filled in some of my blanks. Thank you. No, Dylan would not have bombed anything. He wanted to shoot people and then himself for sure. Eric did follow and look up to Dylan and I think that’s why he became so involved with NBK to the point of becoming “the planner”. The diversion best friend thing is a glaring truth that Dylan didn’t need Eric like Eric needed him. I think that is a major clue to figuring these kids out that is overlooked constantly. And just like Kathy said she didn’t want Eric to lose Dylan when it was discussed for the boys to be apart. Dylan was Eric’s world.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 1:58 am

Damn you all brought a whole new concept into my mind this night. I have always been of the mindset that Eric was the guy behind NBK, Eric wanted it and even if they were playing Doom or whatever and Dylan said "it'd be cool to Doom Columbine huh?" and Eric said "It would" Maybe its media brainwash but I have always been more interested in the "Reb" aspect of Columbine as he was seen and believed to be the ring leader the whole time, and judging by his journal entries I believed it completely. Eric's journal entries I've read fully, they are easily understood, Dylans entries I have to be honest I didn't have the patience for as they were splattered and almost written in codes, Eric was straight forward.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 11:06 am

I am not sure the order of what was written since the boys dated certain writings and didn't date others. However I do notice at first Eric wrote how he wasn't a God and how people weren't gods. Then you have Dylan's writings saying he is an "Einstein in an ant's body" and godlike.. then Eric writes about being godlike. Then Dylan writes about his self awareness and Eric starts writing about how "he and V are the only ones with self awareness."

I don't think Columbine would have happened without one another.

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dereknocturnal




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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 5:37 pm

I wonder if Columbine never happened and Eric entered the Marines and got explosives training etc. if his thoughts about a massacre would creep in again later in his life and he just decided on a different target. at that point he might've been able to cause the devastation he had spoke on in his journal, similar to McVeigh.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 5:37 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I am not sure the order of what was written since the boys dated certain writings and didn't date others. However I do notice at first Eric wrote how he wasn't a God and how people weren't gods. Then you have Dylan's writings saying he is an "Einstein in an ant's body" and godlike.. then Eric writes about being godlike. Then Dylan writes about his self awareness and Eric starts writing about how "he and V are the only ones with self awareness."

I don't think Columbine would have happened without one another.
This.

It's interesting that Eric took "Self-awareness" and "I am a God" from Dylan in my opinion. After reading both journals there is no doubt in my mind that Dylan thought of the idea first,, put it into Eric's head, and knew Eric was that type of individual to do something like this and plan out the attack. Used Eric's anger against him. . I mean come on...when Eric Harris shot up Columbine High School almost no one who knew him were surprised that he was the one that did it. Of course Dylan knew that too.

Also interesting to note that in Dylan's journal he only mentions Eric once or twice, and he calls him by his name "Eric". Meanwhile Eric was always saying "Me and V" "Me and Dylan". He mentioned Dylan a lot. Goes to show you how much faith he put in Dylan. If only Eric knew that Dylan was just using him to fulfill his suicidal and homicidal tendencies.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan had to do it?   Eric and Dylan had to do it? Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 5:52 pm

I always thought the godlike stuff just came from their kmfdm fandom and they just look it up a notch and turned it into reality. What did they mean by self awareness, Dylan said the human shit line and that they actually had self awareness and were a level above human or whatever, what was their definition of self aware?
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