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 If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan

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PostSubject: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 5:41 am

Eventually get girlfriends or even wives. For me, I think that Eric Harris, after a stint in the military, he would return home, and would try to form romantic relationships with women, but end up being unsuccessful. He seemed pretty desperate, so he might seek out a Russian (or Ukrainian or Belarusian) mail order bride, because he would find American women to be too independent. As for Dylan Klebold, I think he might have like 1 or 2 girlfriends, but not be very successful with women.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 5:49 am

I don’t think either of them would really be successful with women. Anyways, these are just my theories about what would happen.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 6:01 am

I have to disagree with you a lot ..

I think judging from what was going on with them high school we can’t really say whether or not they would’ve been successful with women after HS. Dylan could have thrived in college and getting out of the area. They both were smart and had some really great part of their personalities. Neither one of them were unfortunate looking.

However, a hard pill to swallow for some people, is the fact that they were deeply disturbed. Yes, there was a point they could’ve been saved through counseling and intervention. However these are two boys who had plans on blowing up the whole school and murdering people. That was their solid focus. They implemented this plan. No well-adjusted teenage boys decide to do something like that. Say it didn’t happen and they didn’t get any help it would’ve been disastrous for both of them.


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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 6:10 am

Ok then. Like I said, these are just my theories and you guys are free to disagree with them.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 6:30 am

I also cannot imagine Eric going to get a mail order bride like one of those people that spend tens of thousands of dollars that are on documentaries. I never met Eric, but from what I know about Eric. Eric would not do that.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 8:08 am

Dylan commit suicide.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 10:33 am

There is someone out there for everyone, so yes they would of eventually found a significant other.
Susan Dewitt was a pretty girl and was into Eric, even claiming she could of loved him in her letter post- Columbine. Dylan probably would of had a harder time because of his shyness, and lets be real, he wasn't the best in the looks department, but regardless eventually he'd find someone.


Based on their outlook of life in general, it's hard to think that they wouldn't of ended up killing at some other point in their life. I can see Eric just losing it one day and doing his own NBK, while I can see Dylan killing himself sometime down the line instead of a solo shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 10:59 am

I think if Columbine never happened, Dylan would have killed himself anyway, and Eric would have committed a mass shooting on his own, probably with more kills and injuries than what both of them achieved at Columbine.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 11:34 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
I have to disagree with you a lot ..

I think judging from what was going on with them high school we can’t really say whether or not they would’ve been successful with women after HS. Dylan could have thrived in college and getting out of the area. They both were smart and had some really great part of their personalities. Neither one of them were unfortunate looking.

However, a hard pill to swallow for some people, is the fact that they were deeply disturbed. Yes, there was a point they could’ve been saved through counseling and intervention. However these are two boys who had plans on blowing up the whole school and murdering people. That was their solid focus. They implemented this plan. No well-adjusted teenage boys decide to do something like that. Say it didn’t happen and they didn’t get any help  it would’ve been disastrous for both of them.


Agreed. They were not well adjusted people. I used to think that perhaps they'd both go away to college and grow up and be alright. But I don't really think that anymore. They were both deeply disturbed. They both need therapy from good therapists. They needed a lot of help. I don't think Dylan or Eric would have been fine in college. I think the most likely scenario is that without seeking any help Dylan would commit suicide. I don't really know what I think Eric would do.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 1:26 pm

slippy123 wrote:
There is someone out there for everyone, so yes they would of eventually found a significant other.
Susan Dewitt was a pretty girl and was into Eric, even claiming she could of loved him in her letter post- Columbine. Dylan probably would of had a harder time because of his shyness, and lets be real, he wasn't the best in the looks department, but regardless eventually he'd find someone.


Based on their outlook of life in general, it's hard to think that they wouldn't of ended up killing at some other point in their life. I can see Eric just losing it one day and doing his own NBK, while I can see Dylan killing himself sometime down the line instead of a solo shooting.
This is the biggest myth that people continue to tell others who struggle with getting possible romantic partners. No. There is not someone out there for everyone. Many people have came into this world, and left this world alone. They've died alone. Marriage in the 21st century is a farce. A lot of people stay in failed marriages just so they don't be alone, but they aren't happy. A lot of people are not happy. Relationships are not a big thing now a days. Eric and Dylan would've still been in their mid 30's by now. That's still young. I don't think either of them would have ever found a woman to actually stay with them. Not to mention that they were extremely mentally disturbed.

If they didn't commit the shooting Dylan kills himself or pulls a Cho in college. Eric on the other hand would have never went to the military or have been accepted. Mental illness? Check. Felony record? Check. And does anyone here really see Eric taking orders from anyone? He wouldn't make it past Bootcamp anyway. Eric probably doesn't live a normal life either but definitely lives longer than Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 1:34 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Yes, there was a point they could’ve been saved through counseling and intervention.

Was there? I've always very much doubted that all Eric and Dylan needed was a good therapist to put them on the right track; I honestly think the only way those two would've avoided getting into serious shit later in life would be if they had been sent to jail after the van break-in, and even that's iffy. I think Dylan was almost completely a lost cause, Eric I'm not as sure about but he was definitely facing an uphill battle too (and the hill is a jagged clifface a mile high).

Columbine20 wrote:
I think if Columbine never happened, Dylan would have killed himself anyway, and Eric would have committed a mass shooting on his own, probably with more kills and injuries than what both of them achieved at Columbine.

That's a very Cullen-esque level analysis right there.

I think Dylan, by far, would've been much more likely to commit a mass shooting than Eric. Consider the fact that if he had graduated, Dylan would've moved out to a college in Arizona. A place where I'm sure his already massive resentment of other people (and "preps" in particular) for their ability to have joy and meaning in their lives would be exponentially magnified as he sees all these people getting their direction in life and partying, etc. His grades would drop heavily. He'd turn to booze even harder than he already was. And eventually, he would decide that the only way out of the hole he was in would be to kill everyone in sight.

I cannot see a bright future for Dylan. At all.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 2:21 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Yes, there was a point they could’ve been saved through counseling and intervention.

Was there? I've always very much doubted that all Eric and Dylan needed was a good therapist to put them on the right track; I honestly think the only way those two would've avoided getting into serious shit later in life would be if they had been sent to jail after the van break-in, and even that's iffy. I think Dylan was almost completely a lost cause, Eric I'm not as sure about but he was definitely facing an uphill battle too (and the hill is a jagged clifface a mile high).


I may be a Pollyanna but perhaps sometime late sophomore year... But realistically until I leave junior year they didn’t really start exhibiting anything that would be cause for concern. By then it might’ve been too late.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 8:03 pm

lol wrote:
This is the biggest myth that people continue to tell others who struggle with getting possible romantic partners. No. There is not someone out there for everyone. Many people have came into this world, and left this world alone. They've died alone. Marriage in the 21st century is a farce. A lot of people stay in failed marriages just so they don't be alone, but they aren't happy. A lot of people are not happy. Relationships are not a big thing now a days. Eric and Dylan would've still been in their mid 30's by now. That's still young. I don't think either of them would have ever found a woman to actually stay with them. Not to mention that they were extremely mentally disturbed.

That sounds like a cop out to me.
In a world with 7 and a half billion people I'd beg to differ.

Relationships are just as big of a thing now as they ever were. The problem is people are getting into them with the wrong people for all the wrong reasons at astronomical rates.

I wasn't even specifically talking about marriage, but since you brought it up...
Marriage is two way street and people don't always want to put the work in. There are always going to be ups and downs, that's just life. Communication is vital.
Everyone I know who did it the smart way (dating for many years, living together, knowing everything about each other etc ) before even thinking of marriage are the ones still happily married, while the people who rushed into it are the ones divorced.
There is no "right way" to do it, but using your head and trusting your instincts will save you a lot of hassle when it comes to relationships.
Nothing is fool proof, there will always be exceptions, but the divorce rate has been declining since the 1980's so that's always a good thing.


With that said, marriage isn't for everyone, which is completely fine, and there aren't any rules saying you have to get married.
I'm not even a huge fan of marriage myself, but if you're getting married for the right reasons, I don't think it's a farce at all.
I can't just discount everyone who is happily married because I'm not into it.

I see a trend today of people going through a few bad relationships and now their destined to die alone, when they just need to keep on fighting the good fight. It might take many many relationships to find the right person.
I personally find the odds for someone who actively searches for a relationship throughout their entire life not finding someone and dying alone rather low.


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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeTue Jun 04, 2019 2:02 am

I think one of the last tasks Harris penned down on his to-do list was getting laid. I wonder if getting fucked (and possibly repeatedly) in the days coming to NBK might have changed his perspective on life and himself.

I'm almost certain it could have helped.

With Dylan and his lasting romantic ruminating, grabbing actual boobs and having actual thighs wrapped around his waist does look like a total salvation. The problem with Dylan is he was so lonely for so long I don't think it was possible for anyone to poke him out his own bubble (where he was godlike and the rest of them were shit). Dylan had simply flown too off.

---

I think if Eric does succeed getting laid, chance is good he backs off. And it either drives Dylan totally miserable and he kills himself, or Reb talks him out of it (hey man, life's completely different now, get laid and you'll see!)

I also don't think they were that disturbed. I think they were angry, desperate, depressed and (perhaps under the ever-unpredictable influence of Nietzsche) decided to embrace it instead of suppressing it (more rage, build, build, build).

I believe if anyone had had a hunch and tried to get to them, it could have been different. One of the instances where a little bit of love would not hurt.

I also think they would have gotten wives and kids and normal family lives -- had they got through their teen age and early twenties. Both had every chance to study (good minds, supportive parents), they would have finished schools, landed decent IT jobs and women would have found a way to -- you know -- do the things they do when a decent-looking and relatively solvent single guy is on the horizon.

Neither would have escaped the fate of ruining one's life through the slow and painful way of marriage.


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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeTue Jun 04, 2019 9:36 am

patogen wrote:
I also don't think they were that disturbed.

I know of thirteen people who would dispute your characterization.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeTue Jun 04, 2019 1:19 pm

The thing for Dylan is that I dont believe his dream girl existed at all. She may have originally been a real life girl he knew but by the end I think he had put his dream girl on such a high pedestal no real girl would have compared. Look at his journal, he will write about a girl and talk about how much he loves her, days weeks months later he come back and that girl is not who he thought her to be so now he loves someone else. And so on. I think by the end of his life no normal girl could have brought him back to reality.

And ofc Eric wanted to sleep with someone but could it have changed things? Probably not. At least not by the end

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeTue Jun 04, 2019 1:39 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
The thing for Dylan is that I dont believe his dream girl existed at all.  She may have originally been a real life girl he knew but by the end I think he had put his dream girl on such a high pedestal no real girl would have compared.  Look at his journal, he will write about a girl and talk about how much he loves her, days weeks months later he come back and that girl is not who he thought her to be so now he loves someone else.  And so on.  I think by the end of his life no normal girl could have brought him back to reality.  

And ofc Eric wanted to sleep with someone but could it have changed things?  Probably not.  At least not by the end

I agree that Dylan's "halcyon girl" was not ever going to be a real girl. She may have started out as someone real and attending Columbine, but by the end she was just a dream to Dylan. The standards he held this girl to, as you said, were too high for any real girl in high school (or college for that matter) to ever compare to.

I don't think either boy having sex with a girl would have changed anything about their NBK plans. Especially in the end. The shooting was going to happen one way or another. Whether a girl happened to sleep with one of them a week before was irrelevant. Their motives for the shooting weren't driven solely by the factor they couldn't get laid.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeTue Jun 04, 2019 2:30 pm

hvernon wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
The thing for Dylan is that I dont believe his dream girl existed at all.  She may have originally been a real life girl he knew but by the end I think he had put his dream girl on such a high pedestal no real girl would have compared.  Look at his journal, he will write about a girl and talk about how much he loves her, days weeks months later he come back and that girl is not who he thought her to be so now he loves someone else.  And so on.  I think by the end of his life no normal girl could have brought him back to reality.  

And ofc Eric wanted to sleep with someone but could it have changed things?  Probably not.  At least not by the end

I agree that Dylan's "halcyon girl" was not ever going to be a real girl. She may have started out as someone real and attending Columbine, but by the end she was just a dream to Dylan. The standards he held this girl to, as you said, were too high for any real girl in high school (or college for that matter) to ever compare to.

I don't think either boy having sex with a girl would have changed anything about their NBK plans. Especially in the end. The shooting was going to happen one way or another. Whether a girl happened to sleep with one of them a week before was irrelevant. Their motives for the shooting weren't driven solely by the factor they couldn't get laid.

No doubt.
Getting laid would of been a plus for both of them, but in the end, even the best sex in the world wouldn't of changed the outcome.
By that time, they were too far gone and in too deep (no pun intended lol!)

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 05, 2019 12:38 am

Lizpuff wrote:
The thing for Dylan is that I dont believe his dream girl existed at all.  She may have originally been a real life girl he knew but by the end I think he had put his dream girl on such a high pedestal no real girl would have compared.  Look at his journal, he will write about a girl and talk about how much he loves her, days weeks months later he come back and that girl is not who he thought her to be so now he loves someone else.  And so on.  I think by the end of his life no normal girl could have brought him back to reality.  

And ofc Eric wanted to sleep with someone but could it have changed things?  Probably not.  At least not by the end

Of course his idolized version of a woman never existed, but that does not mean he would have automatically considered a real girl something lesser. Reality slap might have been just what he needed to get out of his self-destructive dreamland.

Let's not forget they were at the height of excess testosterone. You get how many, a dozen of boners a day at that age? A girl would have put that to good use. Less aggression, more social acceptance. A huge dose of optimism anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 05, 2019 2:35 am

patogen wrote:
Let's not forget they were at the height of excess testosterone. You get how many, a dozen of boners a day at that age?

study the worst was when the bell rang for ending the class period and you had to hide it with your book while getting out of your seat

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 05, 2019 1:46 pm

slippy123 wrote:
There is someone out there for everyone, so yes they would of eventually found a significant other.
Susan Dewitt was a pretty girl and was into Eric, even claiming she could of loved him in her letter post- Columbine. Dylan probably would of had a harder time because of his shyness, and lets be real, he wasn't the best in the looks department, but regardless eventually he'd find someone.


Based on their outlook of life in general, it's hard to think that they wouldn't of ended up killing at some other point in their life. I can see Eric just losing it one day and doing his own NBK, while I can see Dylan killing himself sometime down the line instead of a solo shooting.


I agree with this mostly, though Idk if Eric would've gone NBK by himself. This is just if he had gotten into the military. If he got into war and it likely would've been Afghanistan or Iraq, and killed and realized the gravity of death and losing "brothers" idk if he would've had the motivation to just to kill random people, but who knows. I also think Eric would've gotten a hot wife, Eric was a good looking guy and he would've buffed up in the military. Dylan lonely suicide by himself in a pool of vomit.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 05, 2019 10:22 pm

dereknocturnal wrote:
I agree with this mostly, though Idk if Eric would've gone NBK by himself. This is just if he had gotten into the military. If he got into war and it likely would've been Afghanistan or Iraq, and killed and realized the gravity of death and losing "brothers" idk if he would've had the motivation to just to kill random people, but who knows. I also think Eric would've gotten a hot wife, Eric was a good looking guy and he would've buffed up in the military. Dylan lonely suicide by himself in a pool of vomit.

Eric would never have gotten into the military for a variety of reasons, but even if he had it wouldn't have been good for him. This was the kid who threatened to kill someone over a car ride to school, you cannot make me believe he wouldn't crack within minutes of starting boot camp. If he had gotten into the military he'd almost definitely end up as a nameless suicide statistic and more likely than not never see a day of combat in his life.

But since I've already established that Eric could not and never had a chance to get into the military, what's his other option? College. Eric could certainly be able to apply himself in college in ways Dylan would never be able to. He'd have an easier time making friends, I think. But it would be pathetically easy for Eric to fall in with the wrong crowd, and pull something incredibly stupid that lands his ass in jail - again. And after that, Eric wouldn't be able to have a normal future with a felony on his record.

Maybe it's just my inner pessimist too, but I've a sneaking suspicion that if Eric had gotten a girlfriend the relationship would sour and he'd end up doing something regretful.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeSun Jun 09, 2019 7:15 pm

If Eric had just grown up a few more years, his rage and angst might’ve disappeared. I think he could’ve lived a very normal life.

Dylan on the other hand, might’ve become like Elliot Rodger, blaming women and society for his own social failure.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeSun Jun 09, 2019 7:20 pm

DanielGardner wrote:
If Eric had just grown up a few more years, his rage and angst might’ve disappeared. I think he could’ve lived a very normal life.

Dylan on the other hand, might’ve become like Elliot Rodger, blaming women and society for his own social failure.


That's what I think. The only information I have is my own life and even though I'm just 5 years out of HS I've changed a lot and I think Eric would've had that chance too. But who knows? It's just a guess but I think Eric could've had a life, Dylan Idk didn't care enough about him, he just seemed like the eternally depressed kid to me. I always thought Eric would have a chance though.
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeSun Jun 09, 2019 7:27 pm

Dylan never talks about hating women though or saying that women owed him anything. He didn’t blame women for his problems he blamed pretty much everyone for his problems. I even saw some inklings of him blaming himself.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeSun Jun 09, 2019 7:33 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Dylan never talks about hating women though or saying that women owed him anything. He didn’t blame women for his problems he blamed pretty much everyone for his problems. I even saw some inklings of him blaming himself.

True, you are very right. The only reason I say Dylan might end up hating women is because in his journal he writes extensively about different crushes on girls, and how his love can never be fulfilled. That could evolve over time to hatred of women, because a lot of times mass shooters blame the people they want to have relationships with because they can’t accept their own failure.

But I’m probably wrong. Dylan defiantly hated himself more than he could ever hate women.

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QuestionMark
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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeSun Jun 09, 2019 8:58 pm

DanielGardner wrote:
If Eric had just grown up a few more years, his rage and angst might’ve disappeared. I think he could’ve lived a very normal life.

I'm highly skeptical, namely because the real Eric's anger issues and angst led him to commit murder-suicide. Since this response is by far the least likely for a person to not just consider, but to fully commit to, I assume that the problem is so incredibly severe that it's not just an issue of Eric being immature.

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PostSubject: Re: If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan    If Columbine never happened, would Eric and Dylan  Icon_minitimeMon Jun 10, 2019 8:13 am

QuestionMark wrote:
DanielGardner wrote:
If Eric had just grown up a few more years, his rage and angst might’ve disappeared. I think he could’ve lived a very normal life.

I'm highly skeptical, namely because the real Eric's anger issues and angst led him to commit murder-suicide. Since this response is by far the least likely for a person to not just consider, but to fully commit to, I assume that the problem is so incredibly severe that it's not just an issue of Eric being immature.

Absolutely.
Teenage angst is something you grow out of, but the hate, rage and anger Eric had built up over many years just doesn't go away.
He thought he was better than everyone, on a higher level, and that most humans were just robots, waking up to slave away at their jobs, rinse and repeat.

He didn't enjoy life much, and in the BT's he claimed he wanted to "kick-start a revolution".
So that tells me that he wanted to be known, he wanted to be infamous.
With that said, he probably would have killed sometime down the line if Columbine didn't happen, for the reasons stated above.

I personally can't see Eric just losing all his psychotic traits, and the rage, hate and anger dissipating just because he got older.
If he went to a really good psychiatrist, it's possible those feelings could of been slightly quelled, but I doubt that they would ever completely go away.
He felt like the world had done him wrong, so there is no doubt in my mind that he would of ended up killing in some way shape or form if Columbine never happened.
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