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 Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 07, 2020 4:56 pm

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 07, 2020 5:26 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] beat you to it
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 07, 2020 6:19 pm

I don't believe it one bit.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 07, 2020 6:46 pm

I thought it was debunked that it was BS?

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 07, 2020 7:20 pm

Of course it's true. And I'll tell you more, someone said Eric that day was flying around to kill people; do you understand, he was flying!!!
...seriuosly, why does someone even still ask about this?

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 07, 2020 7:28 pm

From the National Enquirer article which released the death photos of Eric/Dylan:

National Enquirer June 4 2002 (**this was before the release of Dylan's autopsy):

Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky believed that Eric shot Dylan.

"The first thing that struck me when I looked at the photos is that Harris' left foot is on top of Klebold's right elbow. It would seem that Klebold died first."

He mentions the 3 guns lying on the right side of his body casting doubt that he could have shot himself in the left side of his head.

He concluded that Klebold's death was not from a typical suicide wound, a so-called contact wound in which the weapon is touching the skin when fired. "A contact wound is very characteristic. The muzzle is up against the skin, lead rubs off the weapon, gunshot residue results." The gun that killed Klebold was not directly up against his skin. "It was anywhere from a fraction of an inch to 18 inches away."

And he said the pattern of blood on Klebold's face indicates he had his head down when a single bullet entered the left side of his head. "If his head was erect, gravity would have pulled the blood downward, but the pattern is almost linear coming across the face under the nose and especially under his mouth."


**Klebold's Autopsy (released after this magazine article) did show powder/soot in the left side of his head.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 07, 2020 10:02 pm

I wish I could participate. Too bad Randy is apparently so afraid of his former neighbor, a girl his wife bullied almost 40 years younger than him, he demanded the mods delete all my posts that mentioned anything about the Browns. This was after he was the one to first respond to me, and when I didn't respond fast enough, he deleted them and reposted them and had some young followers of his blow me up privately about why I don't respond to Randy and if I was afraid of the truth.

He told me to lay out where in his book he lied, off the top of my head I had about 10 major points that I gave him. One of those points was that Eric killed Dylan. He didn't respond to any of them, he just mocked me for not having a life, being dumb and pathetic, just like all his other responses that never addressed a single thing I said and instead insulted me at the level of a kindergartener. Then he immediately got all my posts deleted.

You can tell him he is wrong all you want. The mods there might delete anything that is too rational and factual and might lead some of his flock away from him. He pretends to be all about the truth and honesty and blah blah blah but if you try rationally disprove any of his ridiculous notions, he cries and whines like a child, attacking you as a person.

I would say not to feed the troll especially after gis behavior against me. He just wants to reassert his own "celebrity" among anonymous kids online who are young enough to be his grandchildren.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 8:03 am

milennialrebelette wrote:
I wish I could participate. Too bad Randy is apparently so afraid of his former neighbor, a girl his wife bullied almost 40 years younger than him, he demanded the mods delete all my posts that mentioned anything about the Browns. This was after he was the one to first respond to me, and when I didn't respond fast enough, he deleted them and reposted them and had some young followers of his blow me up privately about why I don't respond  to Randy and if I was afraid of the truth.

He told me to lay out where in his book he lied, off the top of my head I had about 10 major points that I gave him. One of those points was that Eric killed Dylan. He didn't respond to any of them, he just mocked me for not having a life, being dumb and pathetic, just like all his other responses that never addressed a single thing I said and instead insulted me at the level of a kindergartener. Then he immediately got all my posts deleted.

You can tell him he is wrong all you want. The mods there might delete anything that is too rational and factual and might lead some of his flock away from him. He pretends to be all about the truth and honesty and blah blah blah but if you try rationally disprove any of his ridiculous notions, he cries and whines like a child, attacking you as a person.

I would say not to feed the troll especially after gis behavior against me. He just wants to reassert his own "celebrity" among anonymous kids online who  are young enough to be his grandchildren.

He's being cruel for the sake of being cruel... YOU have no life??? you are talking to people about something you were involved in!! Your sister is a survivor and you went to CHS, and he spent how many years researching a book... the hypocricy is strong with this one.

I don't know enough about forensics etc.. to say if Eric killed Dylan. It has been debunked by people who know more than me. I think Patrick was the only one who could have seen anything at all and he didn't (if I recall correctly, Patrick was not far from them) . Also I would say if Dylan wanted to die so badly and Eric did shoot him, it was probably not something Dylan cared too much about, but I don't believe Eric killed him.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 9:50 am

There was Dylan's blood in Dylan's gun, so if Eric killed him it was with Dylan's own gun. And "close contact" rather than "contact" to me seems more like a suicide than an execution. You would stick the gun to his skin and pull the trigger. Close contact seems more like a hesitation mark for a suicide.

And of course we have to say Eric didn't know Dylan was left handed, and stuck the gun in his right hand to stage the scene...and he put the gun upside down. Dylan's hand rests on the top of the gun, as in the barrel rather than the handle. The handle faces 'in' towards the rest of Dylan's body, not 'out' toward his hand and the library. Had I not been banned by the subreddit a while back as a secret bully sent out by Cullen to wreak havoc (due to not taking Brooks as gospel), I would post the diagrams showing that kill-shot to the theory.

Since I cannot post the diagrams, here's my own  crap version of the relevant fact. Hopefully that's not breaking rules. The gun is obscured by Dylan's leg on top of it. People assume it's like the left picture, which does at first look like Dylan may be holding the gun, but it's like the right picture, so it can't be even if we pretend his hand is gripping tightly (it isn't).

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It's an interesting thought to say the suicide pact was contrived, but obv it seems real.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 10:27 am

I was reading his AMA on Reddit and he is 100% convinced that Eric killed Dylan and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. I however don't buy it lol unless I see irrefutable evidence pointing to that I won't believe it.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 10:31 am

Momentary lol since people tend to think the Browns are the REAL story while Cullen is fake - because of the bullying story as a security blanket, when both have the exact same dynamic between Eric and Dylan.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 10:49 am

So, a few things.

(1) It is certainly possible that Eric did kill Dylan. Both Eric and Dylan were armed with 9mm guns; Eric carried a 9mm hi-point 995 carbine and Dylan carried a 9mm DC TEC-9. Moreover, the bullet that killed Dylan was never recovered, so we can not say for sure whether he was shot by the carbine or the TEC-9. However, his fatal wound is obviously consistent with a 9mm round rather than a shotgun shell, like Eric, who vaporized half his face.

(2) There is the angle question as well. Dylan was left handed. However, his TEC-9 was gripped by his right hand. So, there are three possibilities here; (a) Dylan shot himself with his left hand, (b) Dylan shot himself with his right hand, or (c) Eric shot Dylan. Given that the TEC-9 has gripped in his right hand, (a) is very unlikely, (b) is less likely and (c) is the most likely. It is impossible to shoot yourself the way Dylan supposedly did with the TEC-9 in your right hand.

Rather, I think the most likely scenario is that after firing at first responders and law enforcement, Eric and Dylan were taking cover by the table they placed the molotov cocktail on, and Eric shot Dylan while Dylan was sitting at the table, and Dylan crumpled to the ground as died as he appears in the leaked photos. Then Eric shot himself.

I genuinely believe that Dylan could have been talked down. He was a coward, he couldn't kill himself. So Eric did and then finished the job by killing himself.


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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 11:12 am

dreadpirateroberts2020 wrote:
So, a few things.

(1) It is certainly possible that Eric did kill Dylan. Both Eric and Dylan were armed with 9mm guns; Eric carried a 9mm hi-point 995 carbine and Dylan carried a 9mm DC TEC-9. Moreover, the bullet that killed Dylan was never recovered, so we can not say for sure whether he was shot by the carbine or the TEC-9. However, his fatal wound is obviously consistent with a 9mm round rather than a shotgun shell, like Eric, who vaporized half his face.

(2) There is the angle question as well. Dylan was left handed. However, his TEC-9 was gripped by his right hand. So, there are three possibilities here; (a) Dylan shot himself with his left hand, (b) Dylan shot himself with his right hand, or (c) Eric shot Dylan. Given that the TEC-9 has gripped in his right hand, (a) is very unlikely, (b) is less likely and (c) is the most likely. It is impossible to shoot yourself the way Dylan supposedly did with the TEC-9 in your right hand.

Rather, I think the most likely scenario is that after firing at first responders and law enforcement, Eric and Dylan were taking cover by the table they placed the molotov cocktail on, and Eric shot Dylan while Dylan was sitting at the table, and Dylan crumpled to the ground as died as he appears in the leaked photos. Then Eric shot himself.

I genuinely believe that Dylan could have been talked down. He was a coward, he couldn't kill himself. So Eric did and then finished the job by killing himself.


On 1), it's true the ammunition was the same. That's the basis for the idea since the photos first publication, along with Dylan being on top of his TEC-9. In fact really it historically wasn't "could be either one" it was "we only have the carbine, where's the TEC-9?" The only gun "in the photo" with the right ammo. However, Dylan's death was ruled a suicide at autopsy, and his blood in the barrel of the TEC-9. At least, as I understand.

On 2) It's not gripped in his right hand. His knuckles are just barely wrapped and not around anything.  You can see nearly all of his first two fingers. It's so flat on the ground it's hard  to tell where Dylan's wrist starts. AND his hand is on top of the gun as I showed above. He's not holding the weapon. Anything based on that assumption is simply wrong. Nor does anybody claim Dylan shot himself with his right hand.

He also seemed to say Eric staged the scene, shoving the TEC-9 in Dylan's (wrong) hand. So, if that's true, you can't say something like because he was gripping it (HE WASNT *flashing red lights*) on the right side some other gun had to shoot him on the left side.  That undermines the whole point it seems to me. Not to mention the strangeness of Dylan's blood/hat/etc on Eric's leg.

Also quite a bit too far away to have been sat at the table. And as I recall the many casings from the carbine due to Eric shooting at police were nearer his dead body than the table.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 12:00 pm

I think it's an interesting theory somehow, but from what we know I believe it's very very improbable that Eric actually killed Dylan, regardless of who was the first one which speculated about it.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 12:33 pm

Maybe i am blind but i don't see any gun in Dylan's right hand. Where is it? Under his leg?
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 12:52 pm

N/A


Last edited by Duluth on Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 12:57 pm

Check the folder "Dylan Suicide Info" for diagrams, evidence etc. related to his suicide:

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 12:58 pm

dreadpirateroberts2020 wrote:
Rather, I think the most likely scenario is that after firing at first responders and law enforcement, Eric and Dylan were taking cover by the table they placed the molotov cocktail on, and Eric shot Dylan while Dylan was sitting at the table, and Dylan crumpled to the ground as died as he appears in the leaked photos. Then Eric shot himself.

Ok. Even in in (what I understand to be) near impossible situation that Eric killed Dylan, such a scenario doesn't have to be welded to the idea that Eric killed Dylan in cold blood or in a surprise attack. In the Suzano shooting in Brazil, there were two killers, but only one with a gun, so the other by necessity had to kill his partner. Obviously that's not at all the case here - Eric and Dylan both had guns - but if we were to (wrongly) assume that Dylan couldn't properly shoot himself with either of his weapons for whatever reason, then we can logically assume that Dylan voluntarily allowed Eric to kill him. We can also argue that Eric hypothetically shot Dylan if we assume the latter was too scared to do it himself and asked Eric to do it or they worked it out beforehand. In feudal Japan up through the World War II era, it was common practice that if a man couldn't commit seppuku, a second man could finish him off. See here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I highly doubt Eric and Dylan knew of such a practice but it outlines the fact that having a second guy help you die is not unheard of.

All this being said, I want to reiterate that I find it practically impossible, based on everything we know, that Eric killed Dylan.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 12:59 pm

Ligeya wrote:
Maybe i am blind but i don't see any gun in Dylan's right hand. Where is it? Under his leg?
I don't see it either, so I guess I'm blind as well. I was about to ask someone to circle it, but they can't be posted here.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 1:04 pm

Alpha's master archive is most helpful.

Check here for the photos:
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Go to crime scene diagrams. Click on 161324205.jpg. Look at the TEC-9 under Dylan's leg. It's the completely wrong way for the story that he's holding it in his right hand.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 1:06 pm

Thanks [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], those diagrams make it more clear.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 1:12 pm

No problem, I'd be lost without them too. That you can't see the TEC-9 is why we have this myth, on top of the general Eric leader/Dylan follower.

Also neat to see from what Alpha linked, the one trying to show 'trajectory'. It seems to say they know which casing was responsible for the suicide (labeled 1961).
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 1:29 pm

dreadpirateroberts2020 wrote:
So, a few things.

(1) It is certainly possible that Eric did kill Dylan. Both Eric and Dylan were armed with 9mm guns; Eric carried a 9mm hi-point 995 carbine and Dylan carried a 9mm DC TEC-9. Moreover, the bullet that killed Dylan was never recovered, so we can not say for sure whether he was shot by the carbine or the TEC-9. However, his fatal wound is obviously consistent with a 9mm round rather than a shotgun shell, like Eric, who vaporized half his face.

(2) There is the angle question as well. Dylan was left handed. However, his TEC-9 was gripped by his right hand. So, there are three possibilities here; (a) Dylan shot himself with his left hand, (b) Dylan shot himself with his right hand, or (c) Eric shot Dylan. Given that the TEC-9 has gripped in his right hand, (a) is very unlikely, (b) is less likely and (c) is the most likely. It is impossible to shoot yourself the way Dylan supposedly did with the TEC-9 in your right hand.

Rather, I think the most likely scenario is that after firing at first responders and law enforcement, Eric and Dylan were taking cover by the table they placed the molotov cocktail on, and Eric shot Dylan while Dylan was sitting at the table, and Dylan crumpled to the ground as died as he appears in the leaked photos. Then Eric shot himself.

I genuinely believe that Dylan could have been talked down. He was a coward, he couldn't kill himself. So Eric did and then finished the job by killing himself.

Lol.

Experts have deduced long ago that Eric died before Dylan, yet you're arguing you know better. And this isn't some armchair psychologist but morticians who actually autopsied them both post-mortem.

Dylan and Eric's bodies were moved after the FBI bomb-checked them by the way.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 08, 2020 1:35 pm

As has been done to death now, they were not moved before the photos or else the photos would be pointless and Dylan would not be laying in his blood; and Eric's brain being on the table does not prove he died first any more than it being on the ceiling does. Also the autopsies do not comment on who died first, as far as I'm aware. Which experts are we referencing? This seems to be just as poor a job of avoiding stating myths with confidence, if not much worse. Hell, they agreed that Eric died first - they claimed he murdered Dylan.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 10, 2020 7:26 pm

I've been working on a huge, detailed research piece on this topic for a long, long time and I will publish it as soon as it's finished. I've been trying to get a 3D model of a Tec-DC9M printed so I can use something better than a cardboard cutout to demonstrate the points in the piece, but so far my cheapest quote is $800+ and I'm not willing to drop that much on a prop right now.

I will cite my sources of course when the piece is finished, but it's not possible that Eric killed Dylan for several reasons that haven't been mentioned and need to be demonstrated visually to make clear. Eric did die first, but that's not evidenced by his brain matter being beneath the molotov cocktail. That molotov cocktail was burning for a long time before it partially exploded. Molotovs aren't designed to be lit and explode, they explode on impact, and that one was lit and set down on the table and burned until the vapors caught fire. All that proves is that Eric died before the molotov cocktail exploded. But still, Eric died first regardless and I will prove it. This is a fact and I will demonstrate this with visuals in the piece I'm working on.

The other thing is that the projectile that killed Dylan was recovered - it was firearm discharge [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Although initially, investigators thought discharge [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] could have been from the same event, but that shot's trajectory passed over Klebold's body at a height of 36" from a distance, which means it was definitely not the discharge that killed Dylan. Discharge [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] were separate events, and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was identified as the shot that killed Klebold.

And we also know the TEC-DC9M fired the fatal shot because there was 1+1/2" of drawback in the barrel matching Dylan's DNA. This is consistent with the close contact wound reported by the coroner.

So, Randy's theory is not based in fact and his analysis of the diagrams and evidence is incorrect and he is likely seeing Dylan's death through the eyes of his vendetta against Eric.

The man has never been able to cite his sources or interpret ballistics data correctly. For instance, he mistakes bullet fragments for live rounds and has never been able to back up his theories with real world facts, data, or evidence since day one.

I will give him credit for fighting like hell to get the documents released and out to the public and all the other things he has done, but analyzing the evidence is not his strength.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 12:23 am

EthanEmerson wrote:
I've been working on a huge, detailed research piece on this topic for a long, long time and I will publish it as soon as it's finished. I've been trying to get a 3D model of a Tec-DC9M printed so I can use something better than a cardboard cutout to demonstrate the points in the piece, but so far my cheapest quote is $800+ and I'm not willing to drop that much on a prop right now.

I will cite my sources of course when the piece is finished, but it's not possible that Eric killed Dylan for several reasons that haven't been mentioned and need to be demonstrated visually to make clear. Eric did die first, but that's not evidenced by his brain matter being beneath the molotov cocktail. That molotov cocktail was burning for a long time before it partially exploded. Molotovs aren't designed to be lit and explode, they explode on impact, and that one was lit and set down on the table and burned until the vapors caught fire. All that proves is that Eric died before the molotov cocktail exploded. But still, Eric died first regardless and I will prove it. This is a fact and I will demonstrate this with visuals in the piece I'm working on.

The other thing is that the projectile that killed Dylan was recovered - it was firearm discharge [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Although initially, investigators thought discharge [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] could have been from the same event, but that shot's trajectory passed over Klebold's body at a height of 36" from a distance, which means it was definitely not the discharge that killed Dylan. Discharge [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] were separate events, and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was identified as the shot that killed Klebold.

And we also know the TEC-DC9M fired the fatal shot because there was 1+1/2" of drawback in the barrel matching Dylan's DNA. This is consistent with the close contact wound reported by the coroner.

So, Randy's theory is not based in fact and his analysis of the diagrams and evidence is incorrect and he is likely seeing Dylan's death through the eyes of his vendetta against Eric.

The man has never been able to cite his sources or interpret ballistics data correctly. For instance, he mistakes bullet fragments for live rounds and has never been able to back up his theories with real world facts, data, or evidence since day one.

I will give him credit for fighting like hell to get the documents released and out to the public and all the other things he has done, but analyzing the evidence is not his strength.

Unfortunately his fighting like hell has been mostly flinging lies and dirt once the majority of the press dissipated. I acknowledge that his efforts to bring some if the covered up documents and evidence to public light is a good thing. Unfortunately I, and many others in the Columbine community believe everything else he has done to hurt people, prop himself up, lie, etc. has definitely over shadowed any potentially good he did with all his bad. A broken clock is still "correct" two times a day, after all.

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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 12:40 am

Quote :


Unfortunately his fighting like hell has been mostly flinging lies and dirt once the majority of the press dissipated. I acknowledge that his efforts to bring some if the covered up documents and evidence to public light is a good thing. Unfortunately I, and many others in the Columbine community believe everything else he has done to hurt people, prop himself up, lie, etc. has definitely over shadowed any potentially good he did with all his bad. A broken clock is still "correct" two times a day, after all.


What you say is true, I watched it unfold, it's horrific. He acts like a caged animal lashing out and I understand why the police didn't want to help him or support him when he asked for information. He earned being treated that way with his attitude. I'm glad he was bullheaded in getting the documents, but yeah, he stepped on a lot of people over the years in the media and all over. All I can gather is that he is so bitter that the cops never investigated Eric and he feels responsible.

In the beginning, he railed on anyone who dared to talk about the bullying Eric and Dylan endured. Now it's his signature speech, but years ago he used to trash everyone who even dared to talk about the bullying having an impact. He never acknowledged that he changed his mind about that. He's never issued any apologies and he does exactly what Eric did - cause destruction and then blame it on other people.

You know, when Justin Tribble (the creator of the CRTF forum) deleted all the sub forums, Randy blamed me and said I hacked the account and sabotaged it. I actually saved all the posts in an archive and was able to restore the lost content for people... but he never apologized for that. Instead, he accused me of being 10 people and told everyone I was the reason he was quitting all efforts to discuss Columbine or share information publicly. I didn't realize how powerful I was lmfao the man is unstable.

He has thrown everyone under the bus and ostracized himself, trying to position himself as THE only authority on Columbine, making wild claims and then relying on his name and "involvement" to get him out of needing to prove his claims. And people new to the investigation have no clue.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 10:26 pm

EthanEmerson wrote:
Quote :


Unfortunately his fighting like hell has been mostly flinging lies and dirt once the majority of the press dissipated. I acknowledge that his efforts to bring some if the covered up documents and evidence to public light is a good thing. Unfortunately I, and many others in the Columbine community believe everything else he has done to hurt people, prop himself up, lie, etc. has definitely over shadowed any potentially good he did with all his bad. A broken clock is still "correct" two times a day, after all.


What you say is true, I watched it unfold, it's horrific. He acts like a caged animal lashing out and I understand why the police didn't want to help him or support him when he asked for information. He earned being treated that way with his attitude. I'm glad he was bullheaded in getting the documents, but yeah, he stepped on a lot of people over the years in the media and all over. All I can gather is that he is so bitter that the cops never investigated Eric and he feels responsible.

In the beginning, he railed on anyone who dared to talk about the bullying Eric and Dylan endured. Now it's his signature speech, but years ago he used to trash everyone who even dared to talk about the bullying having an impact. He never acknowledged that he changed his mind about that. He's never issued any apologies and he does exactly what Eric did - cause destruction and then blame it on other people.

You know, when Justin Tribble (the creator of the CRTF forum) deleted all the sub forums, Randy blamed me and said I hacked the account and sabotaged it. I actually saved all the posts in an archive and was able to restore the lost content for people... but he never apologized for that. Instead, he accused me of being 10 people and told everyone I was the reason he was quitting all efforts to discuss Columbine or share information publicly. I didn't realize how powerful I was lmfao the man is unstable.

He has thrown everyone under the bus and ostracized himself, trying to position himself as THE only authority on Columbine, making wild claims and then relying on his name and "involvement" to get him out of needing to prove his claims. And people new to the investigation have no clue.

He has to continually find new forums online to be "the expert" of, and pulls all his stops out with new impressionable members of the onljne TCC/Columbine research community, to hold onto his ego and position a little longer by getting things edited and deleted.

He has absolutely ZERO credibility in Littleton and especially within the Columbine survivor community. At the very beginning he had a little, but he burned those bridges so quick especially among people who knew him and his family long before the shootings occurred.

Desperate to get that attention and recognition as "the Columbine expert" he comes online, looking for new forums to establish himself and gather impressionable "groupies". Then inevitably he shows his true colors and has to leave, although he'll always have his brainwashed little minions.

Its really sad if you think about it, but he brought it all on himself off the backs of the Columbine survivor communify so I don't have much pity for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 11:07 pm

milennialrebelette wrote:

Desperate to get that attention and recognition as "the Columbine expert" he comes online, looking for new forums to establish himself and gather impressionable "groupies". Then inevitably he shows his true colors and has to leave, although he'll always have his brainwashed little minions.

That sounds like everything I've seen happen over the years. All of it, not just this portion of what you wrote.
I didn't realize the survivors were upset with him. I was out of the picture from around 2012-2016, so I missed a bit.

I do remember him storming off of CRTF in a fit and saying he was done posting there, and his fans were upset and tried to get him to come back, but he left. I didn't realize that was his pattern.

It's a shame because he could have been a huge asset to everyone and could have helped people.
Instead, he chose to spend his time blaming Jeffco for things that never even happened (I remember he asserted they killed a library victim at one point - again, he had hard proof but wouldn't share it because we had to "do our own research"), making up lies, and burning bridges. Sad...

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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 12:14 am

EthanEmerson wrote:
I've been working on a huge, detailed research piece on this topic for a long, long time and I will publish it as soon as it's finished. I've been trying to get a 3D model of a Tec-DC9M printed so I can use something better than a cardboard cutout to demonstrate the points in the piece, but so far my cheapest quote is $800+ and I'm not willing to drop that much on a prop right now.
At that point I think it'd be cheaper/easier to just get a real one lololol
[quote="EthanEmerson"]
Quote :

In the beginning, he railed on anyone who dared to talk about the bullying Eric and Dylan endured. Now it's his signature speech, but years ago he used to trash everyone who even dared to talk about the bullying having an impact. He never acknowledged that he changed his mind about that. He's never issued any apologies and he does exactly what Eric did - cause destruction and then blame it on other people.
Really? That's so weird. In his book he acts like he was convinced it was bullying from the start. And Brooks has definitely been talking about the bullying since the beginning, considering No Easy Answers, so what's up with that? Behind-the-scenes family disagreement?
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 12:26 am

I know, right?? If it wasn't an absolutely terrible gun, I would just buy one, but I can't bring myself to waste money on what could be the worst firearm ever made! Granted, some people say they can fire 8 rounds before it jams but only with specific ammo. No wonder Dylan tossed a full magazine to the side somewhere during the shooting. His weapon of choice being so bad probably saved people from being injured outside before they went in.

I'm clueless on the thing about bullying and Randy. In the beginning, myself and a few others would talk about how we understood that bullying can drive a person to feel like they want to kill the world. We had all been in that mindset in our early teenage years. I just remember Randy reprimanding everyone all the time constantly for talking about the bullying. He downplayed it and told us to stop being sympathetic to cowards.

Sometimes I feel like I want to make peace with the guy, but then these conversations make me realize that would be impossible.

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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 2:00 am

[quote="madehuman"]
EthanEmerson wrote:
I've been working on a huge, detailed research piece on this topic for a long, long time and I will publish it as soon as it's finished. I've been trying to get a 3D model of a Tec-DC9M printed so I can use something better than a cardboard cutout to demonstrate the points in the piece, but so far my cheapest quote is $800+ and I'm not willing to drop that much on a prop right now.

At that point I think it'd be cheaper/easier to just get a real one lololol
EthanEmerson wrote:
Quote :

In the beginning, he railed on anyone who dared to talk about the bullying Eric and Dylan endured. Now it's his signature speech, but years ago he used to trash everyone who even dared to talk about the bullying having an impact. He never acknowledged that he changed his mind about that. He's never issued any apologies and he does exactly what Eric did - cause destruction and then blame it on other people.
Really? That's so weird. In his book he acts like he was convinced it was bullying from the start. And Brooks has definitely been talking about the bullying since the beginning, considering No Easy Answers, so what's up with that? Behind-the-scenes family disagreement?


Brooks never got along well with his parents by high school. They worshipped him, especially his mother, but he was very entitled and always wanted to act like he had problems at home, that he had a rough life, etc. making things up. He really was just a spoiled brat, demanding his parents do this or that for him, mostly letting him do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted.

After the shooting, they were somewhat cohesive again but Brooks pulled a Brooks and drifted off. Judy especially thinks the sun rises and sets on her precious baby and always went along with his new lie or story, suffered through all his temper tantrums and after was still ready to drop down on her hands and knees to make sure he had everything he wanted.

.His dad did think highly of him but he got his ego from his father, they both always have to be right and have to be worshipped in whatever way possible for this. They would fight a lot about silly ridiculous things.

In the past few years Brooks really stepped back, as much as I ever thought he could, from all this. He still introduces himself as Dylans BFF and being the one who was at the start of the shooting or whatever, but he's not like Randy. I could easily see them having a big blowout thats put them on separate trajectories now, which would also explain Randy's ever increasing neediness online.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 1:31 pm

I've been out of the loop with all this and didn't realize Brooks stepped back. I saw he was more into his music now. What a mess...

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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 6:06 pm

Another thing is that Randy says his book is telling the "truth, the painful truth", followed by "it is my perspective" and then again "but it's the truth". Ain't that a tad contradictory?

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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 9:11 pm

Babydoll wrote:
Another thing is that Randy says his book is telling the "truth, the painful truth", followed by "it is my perspective" and then again "but it's the truth". Ain't that a tad contradictory?

So basically; "it's the truth because I said so." -Randy Rolling Eyes

EDIT: Typo

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 9:19 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] basically, yep. And anyone who doesn't agree just hasn't "learned the lessons."

I'm surprised he's tolerated on Reddit and given such a "last word" platform by the mods. Like... they lock his posts so nobody can reply. That's insanity. He's not just another "Columbine victim" he's literally THE source of controversy in the case, and as such, we should be able to challenge him to the moon and back. But they lock his threads and protect him from criticism. He won't dare to start a conversation directly.

I can only imagine the damage he's done in the community, if he behaves like this online... good Lord!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 9:31 pm

Ethan is the source of controversy.
And most of you are so deep in this search that you can’t see the obvious.
Irrefutable proof that Eric killed Dylan.

But you will never see it.

And you don’t need to.
The entry wound and exit wound make it impossible for Dylan to have committed suicide.
Pretend to do it.
Weapon in your right hand.
Pretend.
It can’t be done.
Your precious little Eric killed Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 9:33 pm

Ethan

Doesn’t it drive you crazy. You don’t know everything.
And you hate me.
What a sad mess you are in. Still hating after all these years.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 9:46 pm

Randy, I never claimed to know everything. In fact, in life, I've learned that there is little to know.
I follow the facts where they lead.

Dylan didn't shoot himself with his right hand, despite the gun being under his right fingers.

I don't hate you. I just wish you would talk to me about whatever it is that has you convinced i am someone I'm not, and I don't understand why you've been adamant about slandering me online without ever having a conversation with me directly...

Imagine someone constantly accusing you of doing something you didn't do, and being someone you aren't. Imagine that person reports you to the police for being a threat and you lose two jobs because of the slander they post online that is unfounded and false. For 20 years this person slanders you. You apologize to that person for getting into heated exchanges where you said mean things and they ignore your apology. You call them in an attempt to talk about it and they hang up on you. You ask them to email you and they ignore you. Then, 15 years later, they randomly start slandering you again out of nowhere without talking to you directly.

I'm irritated with your actions, but I don't hate you. Not by a long shot. I value your insight and experiences. I dislike your attitude and the way you treat people.

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PostSubject: Who reported you.   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 9:52 pm

You have imagined so much.
I don’t think of you. I didn’t report you.
I don’t even know your real name or where you live.
You are obsessed with Columbine, and that is probably the source of your problems.
I don’t even know what state you live in, or your name. How could I report you.
I have responded to you because you are a mean person, and you say awful things about me and my family. Your anonymous life on the internet allows you to do that, but I don’t have to watch and let you do it.
You are full of hate.
You have been full of hate for years
It is sad.
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PostSubject: Go ahead.   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 9:56 pm

Go ahead. Believe the Dylan committed suicide.
That is your right.
I believe he was murdered by Eric.
It is fine with me that you disagree.
Why do you have to slander me because I say it?

Believe what you want.

But don’t hate me for saying something else.

Don’t hate anyone.

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PostSubject: Yes, you were rude, and mean   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 9:59 pm

You were rude and mean. And then you apologized? Is that what you are saying.

I remember you being hateful, cruel, angry, and saying awful things. You still do.

I do not need to accept your apology, if you have apologized.
You need to be kind.
I have found you to be hateful and cruel.
Perhaps I am misreading all of these posts.

Find happiness in your life. It is time to leave me alone.
Your anger at me is quite misplaced.

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PostSubject: Become what you love.   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 10:04 pm

I am guessing that there are a lot of people on this site who have been bullied. Well, you hate bullying. You are becoming what you hate. You badmouth next. You say bad things about me. You don’t know me. You are becoming what you hate.
Become what you love. Become a kind, generous, peaceful person.
Become what you love.
Move away from this dark site and find a friend. Move away from the darkness and hate.
Become what you love.

Something to think about.

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PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 10:12 pm

Okay, I'm going to address this publicly because you just lied big time. Wow. Unbelievable.

"I don’t even know your real name or where you live."
- Yes you do. My real name is Calence Ethan Emerson, you've used my name bunches of times online to address me. It's also my username. You also throw my birth name into your posts every chance you get, which is the name you knew me by when we originally corresponded through CRTF 20 years ago. You know exactly who I am. We corresponded via mail 20 years ago, too.

-You used to send me documents like maps and other things. Remember? You denied this before on CRTF until I posted the envelope with your return address and then you finally acknowledged that you sent me documents. But first, you accused me of being Kendra, and tried to say that I was showing a picture of an envelope you sent to her. So I doxxed myself and showed my full name and address on CRTF and you finally copped to having sent me documents. You know who I am.

"You are obsessed with Columbine, and that is probably the source of your problems."
-I'm not obsessed with Columbine. You have no idea what or why my interest exists. You've never bothered to have a conversation with me about it, ever. I don't actually have problems in my life... just your slander.

"I don’t even know what state you live in, or your name. How could I report you."
-You had my full name and address and phone number back in the day. Are you really going to deny this again? I gave you my address when you were sending me documents and I posted my old number for you to call me to talk about this problem that apparently you won't drop... you had all of my contact information. One of the detectives who detained me told me that it was you who called and told me to stay away from you and wouldn't elaborate on why. He knew I wasn't a threat by that time, but he did tell me to keep my distance from you. I wonder why that is?

"I have responded to you because you are a mean person, and you say awful things about me and my family. Your anonymous life on the internet allows you to do that, but I don’t have to watch and let you do it."
-I am not anonymous... I use my real name online... I always have, even when using a moniker I've always been known by my name. I am not anonymous online by any means.

-I speak the truth about what you've done to slander me and try to destroy my life... I'm not full of hate. You're delusional and when I call you a liar, it's the truth... apparently you're still playing games trying to come off innocent as if you don't even know me. That speaks volumes about your delusions. Wow.

My anger at you is misplaced? Because you keep posting that I'm a dangerous person who worships Eric Harris and you keep dead naming me and slandering me? Do you not even realize that you have literally done all of these things and yet now you claim you don't even know who I am?

Are you f-ing serious?

You need major psychological help. OMFG.

"You are full of hate.
You have been full of hate for years
It is sad."
-No, I've been trying to get this guy Randy to stop slandering me and ruining my reputation... there is no hate.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 10:16 pm

You are the ultimate bully, Randy. You create problems and then play innocence. Holy shit, this is some serious psychological shit right here... you start wars with people, ruin them in real life, and then post things that make it seem like you're innocent.

WOW. I thought there was a chance at resolving things with you, but I see that there is not. This is a pattern, not just an issue with me. Holy shit I don't even know what to say right now. You're actually coming here to say that you don't know who I am and you never had my contact information, yet you did, and you acknowledged all of that on CRTF years ago and I've been out of the Columbine loop since 2012 and I come back now and you start up again and this time claim you don't even know me.

Wow. Holy shit. I think you have Eric beat in terms of psychological problems. I can't believe what I'm reading!!!

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Seriously. Yes, I remember those names. I gave you a lot of info when you    Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 10:26 pm

Yes, I know those names. We corresponded on crtf, which I think was your site. But I have never met you, have I? I don’t even know where you live. What state? Where? I have sent info to Kendra, but I don’t remember sending any to you, but if I did, so what? Wasn’t that a good thing for me to do?
You are an injustice collector. You are remembering things I am not.
I remember you writing mean things about me for years. Just look at your last 100 posts. They are directed at me with anger and hate.
And why?
Because I have a different idea than you do. You cannot accept it. Fine.
Don’t accept it.
That is fine with me.

You win!
That is fine with me.

Now can you quit saying you hate me for a few weeks?
That would be nice.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 10:31 pm

What exactly happened between the two of you to cause all of this drama?

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 10:33 pm

Oh, Randy, I had nothing to do with creating CRTF and you know it. That was Justin Tribble.
You accused me of editing and deleting posts on CRTF though, which is bizarre.

You sent me a lot back in the day.
You denied sending me things on CRTF, too.
Then, I proved it with the envelope and you admitted it.
Now you're saying you never sent me things - again?

Yeah my posts are against your attitude and behavior. You can type all nice and pretty, but you're full of shit because you're playing games and we all know it. You are trying so hard to seem innocent, but you're full of crap. It has nothing to do with your opinion. It's 100% your actions.

Do you want to be hated? Is that what you're after? You need help.

Are you paranoid?
Asking for a friend.
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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: What happened?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 10:33 pm

I wish I knew.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitimeTue Sep 01, 2020 10:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I've never been able to figure it out. One day he turned on me out of nowhere and posted that I was a danger to society, I was an Eric Harris fan, I worshipped the killers, and was obsessed and told everyone to stay away from me. He did things I won't even report here.

I don't even know what happened. And he picked up where he left off after 8 years of my absence. I come back and he's at my throat again.

He thinks I'm someone he met in an elevator who IS obsessed with Eric Harris, he became convinced that I was this person, but I am not, and he just can't acknowledge that he made a mistake.

I'm clueless about what made him suddenly change his mind. We were cool one day and the next he made announcements to the world about how crazy I am.

Your guess is as good as mine.

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Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts?   Randy Brown says in ama Eric killed Dylan. Thoughts? Icon_minitime

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