Eric and JROTC

One of my younger friends who is still in high school joined JROTC and it helped her in a verity of ways, one being her confidence. Do you think that had Columbine had JROTC Eric would have joined, and it would it have helped him or made him worse?

That's a good thought. Possibly it could have helped him let out his anger and build his confidence but it could also get him more relaxed around guns. He was planning on joining the marines so I think he would have joined if given the opportunity.

lognifiiskurk wrote:

That's a good thought. Possibly it could have helped him let out his anger and build his confidence but it could also get him more relaxed around guns. He was planning on joining the marines so I think he would have joined if given the opportunity.

Definitely. Also with the regular exercise routine, it could have helped him with his body image issues as well. And while he probably still wouldn't have gotten into the marines it could have helped him get into a branch of the armed forces. I have been thinking about this all weekend.

Nikolas Cruz was in his high school's JROTC program and it didn't help him much. I doubt Eric would be significantly affected.

QuestionMark wrote:

Nikolas Cruz was in his high school's JROTC program and it didn't help him much. I doubt Eric would be significantly affected.

Probably not. But there is always a chance that Eric would have met with some like-minded kids who would encourage him to engage his interest in the military in more constructive ways.

I do think the main reasons behind columbine were the mental states of the shooters, but at the same time I do not believe columbine was a foregone conclusion. Especially before Summer 1998.

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Something like this may have helped Eric had he been a regular troubled teen, but the thing is that regular troubled teens don’t attempt to blow up their schools and kill hundreds of people. Moreover, even regular school shooters don’t do that, of which Eric kindly reminded his future audience in the basement tapes so that no one compares him to those pathetic losers who just wanted to be accepted by others.

I think another case study might be helpful here.

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Quote :

Knight's father was involved in the military and, as a result, Knight moved around frequently as a child. His lifelong dream was to defend Australia in a war. After a troubled high-school life, Knight entered the Royal Military College, Duntroon in Canberra, Australian Capital Territory on 13 January 1987, at the age of 18. While a military career had long been a dream, he lacked self-discipline and performed poorly at his studies and gained good results only in weapons expertise exercises. Knight did not like authority and he hated the social hierarchy of the army which allowed people only a few months older than him to boss him around.

Something tells me Eric would not fare much better.

Btw Eric seemed to be fully aware of his authority issues and it’s really weird that in spite of that he thought he could have been “a fucking great marine”. Maybe his idea of serving in the military was like “DOOM IRL, JJEEEYAAAAAA!!” or “lots of cool guns and a legal opportunity to kill people, hahaha neener neener booga booga”. But hey, he probably wasn’t that dumb.

QuestionMark wrote:

I think another case study might be helpful here.

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Quote :

Knight's father was involved in the military and, as a result, Knight moved around frequently as a child. His lifelong dream was to defend Australia in a war. After a troubled high-school life, Knight entered the Royal Military College, Duntroon in Canberra, Australian Capital Territory on 13 January 1987, at the age of 18. While a military career had long been a dream, he lacked self-discipline and performed poorly at his studies and gained good results only in weapons expertise exercises. Knight did not like authority and he hated the social hierarchy of the army which allowed people only a few months older than him to boss him around.

Something tells me Eric would not fare much better.

But Eric was extremely disciplined and good student? I doubt he would've been good fit for military though. He said himself he wanted to make computer games. Marines and military were just a cover for his parents.

Ligeya wrote:

But Eric was extremely disciplined and good student? I doubt he would've been good fit for military though. He said himself he wanted to make computer games. Marines and military were just a cover for his parents.

Being disciplined and a good student may have been a cover too. I mean, some parents would not consider the possibility that something is seriously wrong with their kid as long as the kid has good grades, doesn’t skip school, etc.

Ligeya wrote:

But Eric was extremely disciplined and good student?

Vandalism, destruction of property, harassment (the Rebel Missions). Breaking and entering, theft (van break-in). Threatening communication (Brooks Brown and allegedly a girl who rejected him). Hacking the school computer system. Underage drinking. Bomb-making. This isn't getting into the numerous alleged crimes he committed, like arson, drug usage, and credit card fraud.

What discipline can be inferred from these acts?

I don't consider being disciplined as being a person of good values and high morals. In my understanding, it's ability to set the goal and to move towards this goal. You can be extremely disciplined criminal, for example. Like Eric was. It's not a compliment or attempt to diminish his criminal activity. It would've been better for everybody if he were less disciplined.

Ligeya wrote:

You can be extremely disciplined criminal, for example. Like Eric was.

He got caught for most of his crimes.

QuestionMark wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

You can be extremely disciplined criminal, for example. Like Eric was.

He got caught for most of his crimes.

And what it got to do with my words?

For a well-disciplined criminal Eric was rather sloppy and careless even in planning his ultimate crime. Even if he deliberately risked getting caught for the thrill of it, there’s also the fact that he had no real plan B in case the bombs failed, and since neither he nor Dylan had any experience in building and testing propane bombs it was not unexpected of them to fail. Instead of making sure things are under control he just relied on pure luck. I’d say he was a determined criminal but hardly a disciplined one.

He was a responsible student and behaved respectfully towards teachers, though; however, it was almost certainly for keeping up appearances and not because Eric genuinely liked discipline. These don’t sound like the words of someone who is happy to follow rules and respect authority:

Quote :

One big fucking problem is people telling me what to fuckin do, think, say, act, and everything else. I’ll do what you say IF I feel like it. But people (ie, parents, cops, God, teachers) telling me what to do, think, say, act makes me not want to fucking do it! That’s why my fucking name is REB!!! No one is worthy of shit unless I say they are.

Quote :

Ever wonder why we go to school? Besides getting a so-called education. It’s not too obvious to most of you stupid fucks but for those who think a little more and deeper you should realize it. Its society’s way of turning all the young people into good little robots and factory workers. That’s why we sit in desks in rows and go by bell schedules, to get prepared for the real world cause “that’s what its like.” Well god damn it no it isn’t! one thing that separates us from other animals is the fact that we can carry actual thoughts. So why don’t we? People go on day by day routine shit. Why can’t we learn in school how we want to, why can’t we sit on desks and on shelves and put our feet up and relax while we learn? Cause that’s not what the “real world is like.” Well hey fuckheads, there is no such thing as an actual “real world.” Its just another word like justice, sorry, pity, religion, faith, luck and so on. We are humans, if we don’t like something we have the fucking ability to change! But we don’t, at least you don’t, I would. You just whine/bitch throughout life but never do a goddamn thing to change anything.

Quote :

After school you are expected to get a job or go to college. To have more of your human nature blown out your ass. Society tries to make everyone act the same by burying all human nature and instincts. That’s what schools, laws, jobs, and parents do. If they realize it or not. And them, the few who stick to their natural instincts are casted out as psychos or lunatics or strangers or just plain different. crazy, strange, weird, wild, these words are not bad or degrading. If humans were let to live how we would naturally, it would be chaos and anarchy and the human race wouldn’t probably last that long, but hey guess what, that’s how it’s supposed to be!!!!! Societies and government are only created to have order and calmness, which is exactly the opposite of pure human nature.

Ligeya wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

You can be extremely disciplined criminal, for example. Like Eric was.

He got caught for most of his crimes.

And what it got to do with my words?

See what [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote above, but it boils down to the fact that if he were a disciplined criminal I would assume he'd take more care to not get caught.