The small questions thread

munchkinphone wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

Not a question with a definitive answer but just for discussion sake, I wonder what Eric was referring to when he says "my parents might have made some mistakes they weren't really aware of". I tend to think he was referring to being moved around a lot, having to start over from the bottom etc, but I wonder if there's more to it than that.

I have always found that especially cruel of him.

I think he was frustrated with the fact that people had all the pieces to see what was going on and that nobody cared enough to put them together and that is why he chose to say that, also to strenghten his thought that what he is about to do is inevitable.

It is a sensitive subject to talk about Erics family since I cant really know anything for sure. I just get the feeling that his Dad was not so emotionally available and his relationship with his Mom did not allow for him to open up about darker things. His common interest (guns,war,explosives) with his dad gave him a letout for his anger and hunger for some sense of power and he was a bit disappointed that his Dad didn't recognize it for what it was and what emotional connection Eric had to it.

Erics tendency to boast about being able to manipulate is, according to me, a way to derive a sense of power from a powerless situation where nobody really cared to pay attention to what Eric was doing and why (mostly why). I feel like I have used that technique as well
Basically making the way it is (and that you dont seem to be able to change) into something you feel that you are contributing to yourself so at least you have control over your situation.

The fact that his, what I think were cries for help, were overlooked and not taken too seriously probably aided him into thinking what a great manipulator he was. He kept pushing the envelope. His teachers loved him, unlike Dylan's who had complaints about him, I'm pretty sure his Hitmen for Hire assignment earned him a B and some compliments (I'll have to look at the 11k again)

Another reason I get irritated when people take Dave Cullen's book as gospel. A quick research or even watching Eric in Columbine will debunk many of his assertions. I think it is interesting to compare Eric as a leader vs Dylan as the manipulator if that makes sense... who was actually manipulating who?

Eric seemed happy just having Dylan as a friend (though Alyssa and Kristi seemed to still get along with him throughout HS? Am I correct?) it was mostly the male friendships Eric ruined. Where as Dylan really wanted to keep up his helpful front "I'm going to produce a play, do sound for theatre and apply for colleges" etc.

As far as his parents, I agree with the thoughts on Wayne. His mom is another story. I'm not sure if either of their moms would have been ready to hear about their sons super dark side. I'm assuming like most parents back then and like my own mother, Kathy may have been like "Eric, you are so smart and handsome, don't let ANYONE get you down, you've been through so much and you'll be such a success.' then if he tries to tell her how much angrier he is getting, he may have just gotten a hug and a "talk to Dr. Albert about it"

Screamingophelia wrote:

munchkinphone wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

Not a question with a definitive answer but just for discussion sake, I wonder what Eric was referring to when he says "my parents might have made some mistakes they weren't really aware of". I tend to think he was referring to being moved around a lot, having to start over from the bottom etc, but I wonder if there's more to it than that.

I have always found that especially cruel of him.

I think he was frustrated with the fact that people had all the pieces to see what was going on and that nobody cared enough to put them together and that is why he chose to say that, also to strenghten his thought that what he is about to do is inevitable.

It is a sensitive subject to talk about Erics family since I cant really know anything for sure. I just get the feeling that his Dad was not so emotionally available and his relationship with his Mom did not allow for him to open up about darker things. His common interest (guns,war,explosives) with his dad gave him a letout for his anger and hunger for some sense of power and he was a bit disappointed that his Dad didn't recognize it for what it was and what emotional connection Eric had to it.

Erics tendency to boast about being able to manipulate is, according to me, a way to derive a sense of power from a powerless situation where nobody really cared to pay attention to what Eric was doing and why (mostly why). I feel like I have used that technique as well
Basically making the way it is (and that you dont seem to be able to change) into something you feel that you are contributing to yourself so at least you have control over your situation.

The fact that his, what I think were cries for help, were overlooked and not taken too seriously probably aided him into thinking what a great manipulator he was. He kept pushing the envelope. His teachers loved him, unlike Dylan's who had complaints about him, I'm pretty sure his Hitmen for Hire assignment earned him a B and some compliments (I'll have to look at the 11k again)

Another reason I get irritated when people take Dave Cullen's book as gospel. A quick research or even watching Eric in Columbine will debunk many of his assertions. I think it is interesting to compare Eric as a leader vs Dylan as the manipulator if that makes sense... who was actually manipulating who?

Eric seemed happy just having Dylan as a friend (though Alyssa and Kristi seemed to still get along with him throughout HS? Am I correct?) it was mostly the male friendships Eric ruined. Where as Dylan really wanted to keep up his helpful front "I'm going to produce a play, do sound for theatre and apply for colleges" etc.

As far as his parents, I agree with the thoughts on Wayne. His mom is another story. I'm not sure if either of their moms would have been ready to hear about their sons super dark side. I'm assuming like most parents back then and like my own mother, Kathy may have been like "Eric, you are so smart and handsome, don't let ANYONE get you down, you've been through so much and you'll be such a success.' then if he tries to tell her how much angrier he is getting, he may have just gotten a hug and a "talk to Dr. Albert about it"

"Talk to Dr. Albert about it" Something about that just makes me laugh.
It sounds like something you'd say when someone just keeps talking nonsense.
I have to use that sometime.

But I feel empathy with the sadness, anger and confusion of trying to articulate and understand your feelings without anyone really wanting to hear any of it. It makes you think that you may be so utterly fucked up that nobody can even consider understanding you.

That thought can work as a self fulfilling prophecy.

munchkinphone wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

munchkinphone wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

Not a question with a definitive answer but just for discussion sake, I wonder what Eric was referring to when he says "my parents might have made some mistakes they weren't really aware of". I tend to think he was referring to being moved around a lot, having to start over from the bottom etc, but I wonder if there's more to it than that.

I have always found that especially cruel of him.

I think he was frustrated with the fact that people had all the pieces to see what was going on and that nobody cared enough to put them together and that is why he chose to say that, also to strenghten his thought that what he is about to do is inevitable.

It is a sensitive subject to talk about Erics family since I cant really know anything for sure. I just get the feeling that his Dad was not so emotionally available and his relationship with his Mom did not allow for him to open up about darker things. His common interest (guns,war,explosives) with his dad gave him a letout for his anger and hunger for some sense of power and he was a bit disappointed that his Dad didn't recognize it for what it was and what emotional connection Eric had to it.

Erics tendency to boast about being able to manipulate is, according to me, a way to derive a sense of power from a powerless situation where nobody really cared to pay attention to what Eric was doing and why (mostly why). I feel like I have used that technique as well
Basically making the way it is (and that you dont seem to be able to change) into something you feel that you are contributing to yourself so at least you have control over your situation.

The fact that his, what I think were cries for help, were overlooked and not taken too seriously probably aided him into thinking what a great manipulator he was. He kept pushing the envelope. His teachers loved him, unlike Dylan's who had complaints about him, I'm pretty sure his Hitmen for Hire assignment earned him a B and some compliments (I'll have to look at the 11k again)

Another reason I get irritated when people take Dave Cullen's book as gospel. A quick research or even watching Eric in Columbine will debunk many of his assertions. I think it is interesting to compare Eric as a leader vs Dylan as the manipulator if that makes sense... who was actually manipulating who?

Eric seemed happy just having Dylan as a friend (though Alyssa and Kristi seemed to still get along with him throughout HS? Am I correct?) it was mostly the male friendships Eric ruined. Where as Dylan really wanted to keep up his helpful front "I'm going to produce a play, do sound for theatre and apply for colleges" etc.

As far as his parents, I agree with the thoughts on Wayne. His mom is another story. I'm not sure if either of their moms would have been ready to hear about their sons super dark side. I'm assuming like most parents back then and like my own mother, Kathy may have been like "Eric, you are so smart and handsome, don't let ANYONE get you down, you've been through so much and you'll be such a success.' then if he tries to tell her how much angrier he is getting, he may have just gotten a hug and a "talk to Dr. Albert about it"

"Talk to Dr. Albert about it" Something about that just makes me laugh.
It sounds like something you'd say when someone just keeps talking nonsense.
I have to use that sometime.

But I feel empathy with the sadness, anger and confusion of trying to articulate and understand your feelings without anyone really wanting to hear any of it. It makes you think that you may be so utterly fucked up that nobody can even consider understanding you.  

That thought can work as a self fulfilling prophecy.

I have empathy for that too.

I think Dylan felt similarly. He felt like he was so beyond hope that no one could or would help him. He started to kind of relish it later. Seeing it as a good thing and not a bad thing. He was a God and everyone else were zombies.

He did say compassion is the most important personalitytrait.

Btw, on an entirely different note, has anyone tried Erics favorite pizza? I have wanted to but felt a bit weird about ordering it. I would feel better about it if I know someone else has done it. "peproni and green peps", Sounds good to me.

I dont know why it weirds me out.

munchkinphone wrote:

He did say compassion is the most important personalitytrait.

Btw, on an entirely different note, has anyone tried Erics favorite pizza? I have wanted to but felt a bit weird about ordering it. I would feel better about it if I know someone else has done it. "peproni and green peps", Sounds good to me.

I dont know why it weirds me out.

I'm more of the combination pizza type. For some reason I think a pizza with ONLY pepperoni and green peppers would be kind of sad and naked looking.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

munchkinphone wrote:

He did say compassion is the most important personalitytrait.

Btw, on an entirely different note, has anyone tried Erics favorite pizza? I have wanted to but felt a bit weird about ordering it. I would feel better about it if I know someone else has done it. "peproni and green peps", Sounds good to me.

I dont know why it weirds me out.

I'm more of the combination pizza type. For some reason I think a pizza with ONLY pepperoni and green peppers would be kind of sad and naked looking.

Two pretty strong flavors together too.

I noticed Eric in his survey said one of his nicknames was Reverend, I’ve never heard anyone refer to him as that. Have you?

munchkinphone wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I noticed Eric in his survey said one of his nicknames was Reverend, I’ve never heard anyone refer to him as that. Have you?

It seems to have something to do with this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is interesting since it has to do with the Roman Empire and Eric and Dylan said in the basement tapes "Go Romans!"

I have never really came across Eric being referred to as Reverend either. Or if I have then I have forgotten it.

Also in a way they did want to bring about a type of Apocalypse.

munchkinphone wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I noticed Eric in his survey said one of his nicknames was Reverend, I’ve never heard anyone refer to him as that. Have you?

It seems to have something to do with this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is interesting since it has to do with the Roman Empire and Eric and Dylan said in the basement tapes "Go Romans!"

Thanks!

The leaked audio cut out early but we kind of hear Dylan laughing like you just called Jesus an asshole.

They certainly put a lot of thought into their nicknames.

Lol I deleted that when I realized that it was actually connected to his nickname as WAR.

However here is the picture.
Who do you think was famine and pestilence?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

People in the 11k mentioned Eric's nickname was either Reb or Reverend. I can't remember who. It is in the acquaintance section. Maybe someone with more time can find it

I remember at first thinking it was a typo because reb is close to rev but multiple people said it

Lizpuff wrote:

People in the 11k mentioned Eric's nickname was either Reb or Reverend.  I can't remember who.  It is in the acquaintance section.  Maybe someone with more time can find it

I remember at first thinking it was a typo because reb is close to rev but multiple people said it

Eric seemed like he could have been a preachy type person. Especially if it was something he was passionate about.

munchkinphone wrote:

Lol I deleted that when I realized that it was actually connected to his nickname as WAR.

However here is the picture.
Who do you think was famine and pestilence?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Famine i thought was Zach at first but maybe Nate and pestilence may be Chris

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

People in the 11k mentioned Eric's nickname was either Reb or Reverend.  I can't remember who.  It is in the acquaintance section.  Maybe someone with more time can find it

I remember at first thinking it was a typo because reb is close to rev but multiple people said it

Eric seemed like he could have been a preachy type person.  Especially if it was something he was passionate about.

True, didn’t he write that maybe things woukd be different if more people asked for his guidance?

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

People in the 11k mentioned Eric's nickname was either Reb or Reverend.  I can't remember who.  It is in the acquaintance section.  Maybe someone with more time can find it

I remember at first thinking it was a typo because reb is close to rev but multiple people said it

Eric seemed like he could have been a preachy type person.  Especially if it was something he was passionate about.

True,  didn’t he write that maybe things woukd be different if  more people asked for his guidance?

Yes he did.

I think it is interesting how the picture of the four horsemen has two things in common with a drawing Dylan made where it was alo the sky opening up, only instead of it revealing an innocent lamb it is his damn contrast symbol. But it also has a bunch of Z's at the bottom of it which stands for zombies (I think) which also is very similar to the picture of the four horsemen.

The drawing also depicts four rays from the contrasting symbol and there is four downwardspirals around it. The number is probably pure coincidence but those four rays and spirals could also be the symbol for the four of them. I don't know. I dont want to start claiming there was originally meant to be four shooters or anything...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Ok so the quality is bad but I hope you get the point, the disposition is similar.

munchkinphone wrote:

I think it is interesting how the picture of the four horsemen has two things in common with a drawing Dylan made where it was alo the sky opening up, only instead of it revealing an innocent lamb it is his damn contrast symbol. But it also has a bunch of Z's at the bottom of it which stands for zombies (I think) which also is very similar to the picture of the four horsemen.

The drawing also depicts four rays from the contrasting symbol and there is four downwardspirals around it. The number is probably pure coincidence but those four rays and spirals could also be the symbol for the four of them. I don't know. I dont want to start claiming there was originally meant to be four shooters or anything...

Which makes me guess it would be Nate and Zach over Chris. I'm not sure why I assume Chris was closer to Eric than to Dylan...

I just think Dylan's drawings were so personal to him, that if it represented the 4 of them, he would choose Zach over Chris.

There are so many interpretations of what the symbol meant too.

Do you ever wonder if Dylan just left these random pieces of paper around, with what he thought was just nonsense to screw with people and have people interested in his thoughts for years and years....

Maybe.. although I don't think so with the contrasting symbol. I understand what it means.

Those thoughtboxes is a great example of what might be just to confuse.

munchkinphone wrote:

Maybe.. although I don't think so with the contrasting symbol. I understand what it means.

Those thoughtboxes is a great example of what might be just to confuse.

I'm with you on that one, he did make an earring out of it too.

Granted I'm older now, buy his writings seemed a lot more deep and intense than most teenage boys, from what I recall.

I am trying to remember.. were Eric and Dylan's journals and writing released at the same time or were Dylan's released later? Maybe I'm thinking of the autopsy report.

Does it look like Dylan wrote "hey" or "they" inside this heart?

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Screamingophelia wrote:

Does it look like Dylan wrote "hey" or "they" inside this heart?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think that is supposed to say I love you

[quote="Lizpuff"]

Screamingophelia wrote:

Does it look like Dylan wrote "hey" or "they" inside this heart?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think that is supposed to say I love you[/quote


I'm not seeing that, but I believe you

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Does it look like Dylan wrote "hey" or "they" inside this heart?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think that is supposed to say I love you[/quote


I'm not seeing that, but I believe you

LOL I see the I and the you for sure

The love is hard but I am not sure what else it could be with the

I think it looks like "They you"

The only sense I can make of that though is if the placement of the words on the cross has any meaning.

Meaning
They = neutral = on the middle of the cross
I = bad = the bottom of the cross

munchkinphone wrote:

I think it looks like "They you"

The only sense I can make of that though is if the placement of the words on the cross has any meaning.

Meaning
They = neutral = on the middle of the cross
I = bad = the bottom of the cross

Because his bars had meanings, in one he wrote "cut here" I think.

Yeah the bars represent good, evil and neutrality and he felt it represented him because he was not evil nor good. But here I feel he states he was actually evil and even beyond evil which is why he put himself even below the lower bar.

I just cant see the "I" or the "love", only the "you".

If anyone want to draw out the "I love" for me I'd appreciate it.

munchkinphone wrote:

Yeah the bars represent good, evil and neutrality and he felt it represented him because he was not evil nor good. But here I feel he states he was actually evil and even beyond evil which is why he put himself even below the lower bar.

I just cant see the "I" or the "love", only the "you".

If anyone want to draw out the "I love" for me I'd appreciate it.

He really did take things to heart. He felt very evil for doing pretty normal things like drinking.... but then he robbed the van and he was just a criminal in his eyes.

I am horrible at tracing. I hope this came out. But the love to me is very sloppy and overly connected

The I is in red, love in blue and you in green[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

You know, I am probably just crazy

Haha no you are not crazy. Dylans handwriting SUCKS. If he did mean "I love you" I feel like he put the o and the v together and then just happened to do a little thing after the e.

It feels just as plausible as my theory

munchkinphone wrote:

Haha no you are not crazy. Dylans handwriting SUCKS. If he did mean "I love you" I feel like he put the o and the v together and then just happened to do a little thing after the e.

It feels just as plausible as my theory

That was how it looked to me but I think I might be swayed with the heart symbol

munchkinphone wrote:

Haha no you are not crazy. Dylans handwriting SUCKS. If he did mean "I love you" I feel like he put the o and the v together and then just happened to do a little thing after the e.

It feels just as plausible as my theory

Back then a lot of us did "lv" for love...
TTYL. Lv, ScreamingOphelia

Did Dylan wear a beret? I've heard in three interviews that people had seen him wearing one. I know Chris Morris did, and people could have mistaken a baseball cap for one. I think that he may have did for a while, not for the same reason as his boots, not a military vibe but and artsy/creative vibe. I think if he did wear it then it could possibly have been inspired by his mother who stood out as an art major, and he did it during the time he was interested in theatrical plays and was writing them with Brooks. Dylan was a confused teenager, and during that time you go through many different styles of clothing, musical tastes, hair styles etc and you try to find yourself.

spidEr wrote:

Did Dylan wear a beret? I've heard in three interviews that people had seen him wearing one. I know Chris Morris did, and people could have mistaken a baseball cap for one. I think that he may have did for a while, not for the same reason as his boots, not a military vibe but and artsy/creative vibe. I think if he did wear it then it could possibly have been inspired by his mother who stood out as an art major, and he did it during the time he was interested in theatrical plays and was writing them with Brooks. Dylan was a confused teenager, and during that time you go through many different styles of clothing, musical tastes, hair styles etc and you try to find yourself.

Chris is the one who was well known for his black beret. I would have to see photographic evidence of Dylan in a beret before I could believe he wore one.

spidEr wrote:

Did Dylan wear a beret? I've heard in three interviews that people had seen him wearing one. I know Chris Morris did, and people could have mistaken a baseball cap for one. I think that he may have did for a while, not for the same reason as his boots, not a military vibe but and artsy/creative vibe. I think if he did wear it then it could possibly have been inspired by his mother who stood out as an art major, and he did it during the time he was interested in theatrical plays and was writing them with Brooks. Dylan was a confused teenager, and during that time you go through many different styles of clothing, musical tastes, hair styles etc and you try to find yourself.

Meg Beck, the director of the Ascot Theatre claimed Dylan was wearing a beret. Maybe he thought it made him look more artsy? LOL. He may have been wearing his Red Sox cap and she did a cursory glance and thought it was a beret.

When she talks about Brooks it is interesting. He came off as more odd and awkward than Dylan did to her.

sorry, if this has discussed before, but I still want to ask. I'm reading Bree testimony, and wonder, Eric didn't shot her only because he got the recoil from his gun right in the face and became disorientated for some moment? her "lucky" day?

also, there is "cleaned" (not so clean but phrases in understandable) version of Valeen crying (was taken from 911 call), isn't was Eric the one who said "shut the fuck up with your bitching"?

Wasn't it "quit your bitchin'" which was also a suggestion for the phrase of the day on the RNN?

Veik said James Davis made the suggestion but Veik also said he was gonna "Finish what Eric and Dylan started" so who knows.

Maybe it was planned.

munchkinphone wrote:

Wasn't it "quit your bitchin'" which was also a suggestion for the phrase of the day on the RNN?

probably you right,
need to have hearing level over 99 to hear all.

I want to know what people who have read Sue Klebolds book thinks of that whole incident where Dylan and everyone in class laughed when the teacher played a song.

Honestly I found the song a bit amusing and understood why they laughed when I heard it.

I feel it was kind of weird of his parents to play it for him at home and make him say it was good. I feel like they should've told him to respect other peoples opinions rather than try to make him change his own. Forcing opinions on people never works.

I feel that that whole situation says a bit about his relationship to his family, that he kind of just gave up and said the song was OK while probably still not liking it and then his parents felt like they somehow achieved something.

As far as I've ever been aware, the shooters began the massacre wearing their trench-coats.  
Is anyone familiar with what happened with those? I.e. When/where they took them off?

I'm 99% sure Eric took his off while shooting from the top of the stairs, to be able to aim better. His coat was laying outside by the entrance.

Dylan took his off in the library, I think around the time they reloaded

Appreciate the reply. Found this photo while digging through the forums.
Just wanted to follow up for future readers.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I have always wondered why Eric and Dylan didn't just storm the cafeteria when the propane bombs failed to detonate? I mean, if they wanted to kill 250+ people, wouldn't it make sense to go to the most densely populated area? What do you guys think?

Obviously glad they didn't as that would have been absolutely devastating. Just trying to get inside their heads.

I honestly don't think they were quite ready for the up close and personal killings. Waiting outside while the school blows to smitherines not having to see exactly who you are killing is a lot different than blowing them away one by one...just my opinion though!

Perhaps they anticipated the bombs going off late.

NBK's original plan was to bomb up the school, kill some kids, to shot couple of cops, die young and "wikipedied" forever. And it's was totally f***ked up with Eric's lame bomb making skills (yeah, yeah, don't blame Eric, it wasn't his fault that google wasn't invented that days). They decided to improvise, it's much more easier to shot in to the static object, than to moving ones, also they wasn't so good in long range shooting . But mankind killing took less than 20 minute, and they became bored, well you know, dying people wasn't so cool in real life as in doom, otherwise I can't explain why  godlike mankind destroyers dropped their mission and left so many alive and wounded. Also, even Arlene had "bullied" Eric on the most important day of his life by stroked him right in the face (yeah, as they said on the "rampant range", she was baaaad). Cops heroically decided to wait until all solve by it self. So nothing left besides "die young mission". Interesting are they knew that after couple of years everyone in whole world gonna know with underpants the wore that day, Colorado is still god damn cruel to these guys

To be fair I have never seen any information on underpants, I'm a little impressed. Maybe tumblr isn't such a bad place after all

Autopsy Reports tell you about what clothing they wore on April 20.