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 The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)

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PostSubject: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeFri Jul 10, 2015 2:36 am

Some great info in this article. There is some specific info on the Tec-9. I found this statement quite interesting: "TEC-9 owners were five times more likely to commit murder than other handgun owners"

Here is an excerpt:

"Twice banned by the ATF, first because of its easy conversion to fully automatic and then because it included a two-hand “assault grip” designed for easy spraying of bullets, the manufacturer kept tweaking the design to stay just within the legal boundaries (though two employees were sentenced to a year in jail when they tried to sell fully automatic versions to an undercover ATF agent in 1994).

The company also used rather questionable advertising to promote the gun, with one ad referring to its “excellent resistance to fingerprints” and another that used a human head and heart as bull’s-eyes, with gun smoke pouring from both.

Needless to say, it became a hot item at many gun dealers and gun shows and was the kind of gun that appealed to Soldier of Fortune reader Luigi Ferri, a disgruntled client of the Pettit and Martin law firm in San Francisco. The gun was among those banned in his home state of California after Patrick Purdy shot up a Stockton schoolyard in 1989 with an AK-47, killing five children. So Ferri went to Nevada, where he bought two TEC-DC9s.

On July 1, 1993, Ferri stepped off the elevator on the 34th floor of a San Francisco building and into Pettit and Martin’s law offices, armed with his two TEC-DC9s, ammunition magazines with 40 to 50 bullets and a .45-caliber Norinco pistol, and walked from room to room and floor to floor, firing barrages of 9mm bullets, finishing off some victims with the Norinco, killing eight people and wounded six others, before shooting himself.

In a civil lawsuit that followed, plaintiffs’ witness James Alan Fox, a criminal-justice expert at Northeastern University in Boston, using federal gun-tracing statistics from 1990-94, concluded that TEC-9 owners were five times more likely to commit murder than other handgun owners. He also found that more TEC9s had been traced from crime scenes than any other assault weapon for five consecutive years."

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeFri Jul 10, 2015 4:44 am

Interesting, but boy the Tec-9 is one of the shittiest guns ever. No wonder Dylan rarely shot outside. His weapons truly were awful. Eric's weapons sucked too, but much better than Dylan's. How the hell did they expect to pick off any survivors with the weapons Dylan had? His Tec would have jammed over, and over, and over again while the kids were fleeing from the cafeteria.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeFri Jul 10, 2015 5:05 am

Gustopoet2 wrote:
Some great info in this article. There is some specific info on the Tec-9. I found this statement quite interesting: "TEC-9 owners were five times more likely to commit murder than other handgun owners"

Well, it was very much a "poor man's gun" often owned by poor black teenagers, drug dealers, small time thugs, disgruntled or unemployed oor whites etc. Its not exactly a respectable and reliable "home defence" gun owned by many responsible citizens. Also yeah, it was easy to make illegal mods and tehre were large (and unreliable) clips for it. Let's face it - if you buy a 32 or 50 round clip for what is essentially a semiautomatic hangdun, then you are either going for a drive-by or are already in McVeigh mental territorry so to speak.

Afaik it had the same bad press and poor rap that early glocks had. It was urban-turf and a "wanker's gun". Plus it was cheap.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeFri Jul 10, 2015 9:15 am

I have one of these.... It's the DC version... Biggest POS in my collection. I got it for the simple reason "It looks bad as hell". I have never got more than 5 rounds through it without it jamming up. Funny how ppls eyes light up when they see it, until I tell them just how shitty of a gun it is.
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeFri Jul 10, 2015 12:31 pm

It was more theatrical than anything else. I think that is one point the article is trying to make. That the gun's "image" is the reason Tec-9 owners were 5x more like to use the gun in a homicide. It looks a little more lethal aesthetically than your run-of-the-mill gun.
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeFri Jul 10, 2015 1:25 pm

deathmedic wrote:
I have one of these.... It's the DC version... Biggest POS in my collection. I got it for the simple reason "It looks bad as hell". I have never got more than 5 rounds through it without it jamming up. Funny how ppls eyes light up when they see it, until I tell them just how shitty of a gun it is.

Thanks for this info. Gun looks bad as hell but you can't hit a damn thing with it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeFri Jul 10, 2015 1:38 pm

Sabratha wrote:
Gustopoet2 wrote:
Some great info in this article. There is some specific info on the Tec-9. I found this statement quite interesting: "TEC-9 owners were five times more likely to commit murder than other handgun owners"

Well, it was very much a "poor man's gun" often owned by poor black teenagers, drug dealers, small time thugs, disgruntled or unemployed oor whites etc. Its not exactly a respectable and reliable "home defence" gun owned by many responsible citizens. Also yeah, it was easy to make illegal mods and tehre were large (and unreliable) clips for it. Let's face it - if you buy a 32 or 50 round clip for what is essentially a semiautomatic hangdun, then you are either going for a drive-by or are already in McVeigh mental territorry so to speak.

Afaik it had the same bad press and poor rap that early glocks had. It was urban-turf and a "wanker's gun". Plus it was cheap.

Somehow people forget that many guns (and types of ammunition) are subject to the same lack of competent design, manufacture, and QC that impacts just about every other "cheap" product that is available in the U.S.
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jul 27, 2015 9:03 pm

The boys pretty much had to take what they could get their hands on. The Tech9 was cheap and easily acquired illegally. They did get the Hi-point and the Shotguns at a gun show, but even then they had to pick cheaper weapons due to a tight budget. I would imagine the boys thought the Tech9 would add to the image they hoped to create that day. It may be a crappy gun but there is something very sinister about its design. Guns with extended clip also tend to be confused with assault weapons. I think that may have led to the confused reports of a fully auto weapon being used.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeTue Jul 28, 2015 3:00 am

Nirvana92 wrote:
The boys pretty much had to take what they could get their hands on. The Tech9 was cheap and easily acquired illegally. They did get the Hi-point and the Shotguns at a gun show, but even then they had to pick cheaper weapons due to a tight budget. I would imagine the boys thought the Tech9 would add to the image they hoped to create that day. It may be a crappy gun but there is something very sinister about its design. Guns with extended clip also tend to be confused with assault weapons. I think that may have led to the confused reports of a fully auto weapon being used.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Although I'd say it was Dylan and not both boys (Eric was too pragmatic about weaponry) who thought the Tec 9 "would add to the image they hoped to create that day." Which it certainly did. In fact it may have made up in intimidation for what it lacked in accuracy and firing power. It was supposed to be a rapid-shooter, too, which they probably thought would balance out his clunky double-barrel.

They also had to get the guns in time enough to have some live-firing time with them and get used to the feel, such as it was.

To be honest I don't think they put that much time and effort into the guns. Since NBK was supposed to be a bombing the guns were only secondary weapons. They put most of their time and effort into the bombs.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeSat Aug 01, 2015 12:15 am

Another article with a lot of info and commentary on the TEC-9.


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Sample quote "Klebold's TEC-DC9 was a heavy, awkward handgun built to fire dozens of bullets in seconds, advertised as fingerprint-resistant and sold, according to one criminal-justice expert, to people with a remarkable propensity for killing."

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeSun Aug 02, 2015 4:41 am

Gustopoet2 wrote:
Another article with a lot of info and commentary on the TEC-9.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sample quote "Klebold's TEC-DC9 was a heavy, awkward handgun built to fire dozens of bullets in seconds, advertised as fingerprint-resistant and sold, according to one criminal-justice expert, to people with a remarkable propensity for killing."

Yeah, "wanker's gun".

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 11:57 am

Nirvana92 wrote:
Guns with extended clip also tend to be confused with assault weapons. I think that may have led to the confused reports of a fully auto weapon being used.

Can we talk about the fact that they both used semi-automatic guns? Is it safe to say it was a conscious decision made or simply based on what they can afford?
Did you think it is so they have control on their shots as opposed to what a fully auto does?
and anyway, the entire time they did have control if so, they both sucked at it. Goes to show execution was as amateur as they were just teenagers with arsenal.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 1:04 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
Nirvana92 wrote:
Guns with extended clip also tend to be confused with assault weapons. I think that may have led to the confused reports of a fully auto weapon being used.

Can we talk about the fact that they both used semi-automatic guns? Is it safe to say it was a conscious decision made or simply based on what they can afford?
Did you think it is so they have control on their shots as opposed to what a fully auto does?
and anyway, the entire time they did have control if so, they both sucked at it. Goes to show execution was as amateur as they were just teenagers with arsenal.

Well we know why Eric wanted "Arlene" and I think Dylan did want the tec 9 for looks alone. I think the other weapons were a mix of what they wanted and what they could afford. The guy who sold Dylan his shotgun stated that he had that gun on his "cheap rack" and that it was not as good as the other guns he was selling.
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 1:42 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] okay....so does it mean they knew they wanted semi-automatics? Because if it were a full auto gun, it may have caused more horrid damage, even though they would be firing many rounds causing ammo to run out faster. I'm just gonna assume it's a combination of cheaper price and they wanted to be able to control their shots point blank.
I do stand by the fact the Tec-9 was chosen for looks.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 1:48 pm

I mean they originally wanted Calicos right? Another semi auto gun. I don't know if they were truly thinking about autos vs semi autos when purchasing. When shooting at kids running out of a school though I would think an automatic would be better (Wow that is a morbid thing to think about)


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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 2:02 pm

damn Calicos?...the boys are weird hahaha. And yes, had they chosen let's say an AR15, Lanza's gun and the Orlando Nightclub shooter's gun...that would be the worst. But I also think a rifle such as that is way too ex. The boys were truly rookies, I don't really think they knew what they were handling, like the bombs they made for example. Didn't end up working, or wasn't the right type for the result they wanted.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 2:24 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
damn Calicos?...the boys are weird hahaha. And yes, had they chosen let's say an AR15, Lanza's gun and the Orlando Nightclub shooter's gun...that would be the worst. But I also think a rifle such as that is way too ex. The boys were truly rookies, I don't really think they knew what they were handling, like the bombs they made for example. Didn't end up working, or wasn't the right type for the result they wanted.

Agreed. They couldn't hit moving targets well and Eric didn't hit any cops (with guns at least). It is good they were broke and inexperienced
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 3:20 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] okay....so does it mean they knew they wanted semi-automatics? Because if it were a full auto gun, it may have caused more horrid damage, even though they would be firing many rounds causing ammo to run out faster. I'm just gonna assume it's a combination of cheaper price and they wanted to be able to control their shots point blank.
I do stand by the fact the Tec-9 was chosen for looks.

Where do you think they would acquire fully auto weapons? I grew up in a gun loving family with dozens of weapons and I've only ever seen fulły autos in the hands of proper authorities. Other than semi autos the only choices the boys would have had was Single Action pistols or bolt action rifles. There was zero chance of the two getting a fully auto. America has a bad image when it comes to guns, but you can't just walk into a sporting good store and buy a machine gun haha.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 4:34 pm

Are assault rifles automatic or semi? I don't know anything about guns. I just know handguns like glocks, sig sauers, and berettas. Like Robyn could ever have gotten anything fancy or cool and thank God she didn't.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 4:45 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Well I don't know anything in full surrounding acquiring or the purchasing of guns, plus, I never thought about the possibility aspect of buying an auto machine gun. DK alot about guns, it categorises all over the place.
But if they wanted to, they could have gotten completely out of their way to get one. There's always ways.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 4:47 pm

aquillina wrote:
Are assault rifles automatic or semi? I don't know anything about guns. I just know handguns like glocks, sig sauers, and berettas. Like Robyn could ever have gotten anything fancy or cool and thank God she didn't.

Depends on the gun. I think with the right amount of money they could have gotten full automatics but I dont think it really mattered because they planned to bomb the kids not so much shoot them.
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 4:52 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] pulling it right out of my bottom but I think you could say both if you're speaking about it generally. Don't know my gun knowledge well either.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 6:27 pm

I'm not sure why everyone always gets a hard on over fully automatic weapons. They're actually really hard to get in most circumstances, and even then, unless you have good instincts and aiming, you'll probably have a tough time hitting shit when you fire like rambo anyway, not to mention fatigue. Real life weapons and guns are not like the movies.

As for the Tec9, it gets a bad rep sure, but if you use the right magazine and round then it is less common. The sights are the problem.

If you look at the rampart range video, Dylan actually fires the thing pretty quickly iirc and it doesn't jam at all. Maybe it was just he was using a different model.
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2016 6:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yeah. In actuality firing one is extremely tiresome isn't it? and if I am not wrong I think I read it, that the moment the rampage started Dylan was already messing up and dropping a magazine with live rounds in it on the ground. Must've been adrenaline too.

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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeWed Jun 15, 2016 4:50 am

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Well I don't know anything in full surrounding acquiring or the purchasing of guns, plus, I never thought about the possibility aspect of buying an auto machine gun. DK alot about guns, it categorises all over the place.
But if they wanted to, they could have gotten completely out of their way to get one. There's always ways.

Unfortunately the gun hysteria has pushed this false assumption on the world that you can get any kind of gun you want here in America with ease. To be able to own a fully auto one must apply for a permit, and really the only way to obtain that permit is to have a background involving automatic weapons. If you aren't a veteran there's almost no chance of you acquiring on legally.

As for illegally I don't think their chances would have been any better. If they knew were to get guns on the street they wouldn't have gone through the gun show. It seems the only gun they could find was the Tech9, and that connection was a "fall in your lap" kind of deal. Even if they did know someone I can't imagine what a black market fully auto weapon would cost. One by itself would probably eat most (if not all) of their NBK budget.
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PostSubject: Re: The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9)   The Guns of Columbine (Tec 9) Icon_minitimeWed Jun 15, 2016 6:48 am

Okay.
I think I'm also overshadowed by the legality of the guns used by Lanza, Roof and the recent one Omar. not sure about Cho or James Holmes. It's tragic that even those who got better guns legally, might end up deciding to commit mass murder with it, abusing the access they had.

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