Any thoughts on "virgin rage" aspects to many mass shootings?

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person to notice that a lot of the mass shooters (E&D obviously included), were either likely awkward, shy virgins, or extremely unattractive to women. Especially Elliot Rodger, Chris Harper, and the list goes on and on.

Anyone know of any serious discussion into this? I can imagine lack of sexual activity, constantly being made to feel unattractive, and the fact that most guys are judged by their peers for their success (or lack of) with females. Just seriously contemplating the possibility of this aspect factoring into a lot of mass shootings.

I honestly think this virgin rage thing is probably as old as humanity in many ways. It will never end....

James411 wrote:

I honestly think this virgin rage thing is probably as old as humanity in many ways. It will never end....

To me, that's extremely sad..even as a teenager, I was always really nice if I wasn't attracted to a guy who expressed interest..rejection can be really awful.

People need to recognize this, but I guess it's not important enough.

Being a young awkward guy with a lot of passionate dreams of love that can never seem to be fulfilled is a frusterating thing, then when you see another guy kiss that girl you think about all day and you run to the bathroom to cry. It's not like being a shy girl just waiting to take interest in a boy who is brave enough to go up to you. I was like that all throughout high school, at the same time my first relationship was with a girl who came up to me and did most of the ice breaking work, so I know it's not always like that.

We're living in times where sex and sexuality is everywhere: tv, cinema, media, newspapers, school and so on. There is put a huge pressure on young boys in this matter. They're obligate to have many girls and sleep with them if not they're perceive as losers, unattractive or weirdos. So I'm not surprise that many of those boys can't resist it and they become depressive, have mental illness and suicide thoughts or in extreme cases homicide thoughts.

It might be more a matter of correlation rather than causation. If you're shy and withdrawn, making connection with persons you desire will be near impossible. I wouldn't saw it's a matter of attraction with Eric and Dylan, since there were girls who thought they were just that. It was always their personalities that sabotaged them.

radaddio wrote:

It might be more  a matter of correlation rather than causation. If you're shy and withdrawn, making connection with persons you desire will be near impossible. I wouldn't saw it's a matter of attraction with Eric and Dylan, since there were girls who thought they were just that. It was always their personalities that sabotaged them.

This. I was about to say just that about the attractiveness factor and didn't know how to put the rest into words. Eric and Dylan weren't ugly by most measures;  Dylan wasn't AS conventionally handsome as Eric, but most people wouldn't say he was physically repulsive (it would be a cold day in Hell before I would) and there are at least two girls from CHS we know of who had some attraction to Dylan at some point, Marla Foust and Robyn Anderson. But he didn't seem to pick up on it or know. I can relate to him in that way. After I graduated I got so many people telling me that I was cute and that they wanted to date me but didn't think I'd be interested - when I hadn't seen myself as attractive at all, because high school and the teen years are hell on your self-image. I think that's a common thing in high school.

WendlaBergman wrote:

radaddio wrote:

It might be more  a matter of correlation rather than causation. If you're shy and withdrawn, making connection with persons you desire will be near impossible. I wouldn't saw it's a matter of attraction with Eric and Dylan, since there were girls who thought they were just that. It was always their personalities that sabotaged them.

This. I was about to say just that about the attractiveness factor and didn't know how to put the rest into words. Eric and Dylan weren't ugly by most measures;  Dylan wasn't AS conventionally handsome as Eric, but most people wouldn't say he was physically repulsive (it would be a cold day in Hell before I would) and there are at least two girls from CHS we know of who had some attraction to Dylan at some point, Marla Foust and Robyn Anderson. But he didn't seem to pick up on it or know. I can relate to him in that way. After I graduated I got so many people telling me that I was cute and that they wanted to date me but didn't think I'd be interested - when I hadn't seen myself as attractive at all, because high school and the teen years are hell on your self-image. I think that's a common thing in high school.

I disagree about Robyn. I think Dylan knew Robyn was interested in him but he just wasn't interested in her. As a friend, yes. But he didn't want to go to the prom with her and he never showed any interest in wanting to date her or her be his girlfriend. He was obsessed with all these other girls. I don't think he disliked her but I just don't think he was interested in the way she was interested in him.

As for a response to this thread, I think in the case of Elliot Rodger, rejection by girls was definitely the main motive. Even though by the looks of things, he never even approached women. His standards were way to high and he just expected women to flock on over to him. He made no attempt to even befriend any women let alone date them.

Most of these school shooters are awkward outcasts. And with the except of Dylan and Eric, most of them had no friends or girlfriends. Dylan and Eric definitely had it a lot better than some of these school shooters. They had each other and they had a pretty decent amount of friends too.

You rarely, if ever, hear about a school shooter being the popular guy at school with a girlfriend going and shooting up his school. I don't know the actual statistics, but I'd say, that yes, lack of success with girls was a big part for quite a few of these shooters. I'm not saying it's the main reason or the only reason but I'd say it is definitely at the top.

The only case I can think of where a shooter was popular was Jaylen Fryberg, and even then that case came across to me that he was targeting family members and just happened to decide to kill them at school because they'd all be relatively in the same place and he could get them all at once. I'm not saying this for certain, since it was over a year ago and I don't remember a lot about it.

About Dylan being fixated on these other girls, you know what that makes me think of? A song called "A Daydream Away" by All Time Low. It's about this guy who really likes a girl but he knows she either won't be interested in him or there will be other problems and says "so I'll keep you a daydream away, and just watch from a safe place so I'll never have to lose." Maybe Dylan fixated on unavailable girls on purpose so he wouldn't get hurt?

What his name the Northerner Illinois university shooter was popular with women.

Of course being an outcast and having people ignore you all the time can create a personality disorder which leads to violence.

Interesting topic

Sexual frustration can lead to aggression

Most mass murderers don't care about the sexual aspect anymore insomuch as actually taking life

However, most serial killers involve a sexual aspect in their killing

But you will find that most mass murderers are interested solely in killing

** This is one of the main differences between a mass murderer and a serial killer

I think it might be another reason that guys are more likely to turn their dissatisfaction into violence and rage

Its easy to be pulled into some vortex of hatred to explain your isolation and sexual frustration (more, nowadays that you can find it in your own home on the internet?)
I mean, you can go on /r9k/ and someone will explain to you that you're an outcast and a virgin because of women and feminism
Most ignore it, but some find comfort in their shared "shame" of being a virgin and alone
And then it's easy to breed hate and extremism (recently, I've been seeing more and more polarisation of everything, especially feminism and anti-feminism. I dunno if that's just me looking for the loudest voices though and polarisation in American society isn't so bad - it still gives the perception that there is only one side or the other)

I was watching Reggie Yates' Extreme UK: Men at War and thought about what is provided to guys that are angry and want change
Male unemployment, suicide etc etc SEEMS like no one's fighting these causes, and the isolated, lonely virgins (some are affected most by those issues, personally) do feel like an outcast and silenced by their society. Then a site telling you to hate women, gives people refuge from the unfair world

Us vs the world mentality and hopelessness, adding to "virgin rage"

Jenn wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

radaddio wrote:

It might be more  a matter of correlation rather than causation. If you're shy and withdrawn, making connection with persons you desire will be near impossible. I wouldn't saw it's a matter of attraction with Eric and Dylan, since there were girls who thought they were just that. It was always their personalities that sabotaged them.

This. I was about to say just that about the attractiveness factor and didn't know how to put the rest into words. Eric and Dylan weren't ugly by most measures;  Dylan wasn't AS conventionally handsome as Eric, but most people wouldn't say he was physically repulsive (it would be a cold day in Hell before I would) and there are at least two girls from CHS we know of who had some attraction to Dylan at some point, Marla Foust and Robyn Anderson. But he didn't seem to pick up on it or know. I can relate to him in that way. After I graduated I got so many people telling me that I was cute and that they wanted to date me but didn't think I'd be interested - when I hadn't seen myself as attractive at all, because high school and the teen years are hell on your self-image. I think that's a common thing in high school.

I disagree about Robyn. I think Dylan knew Robyn was interested in him but he just wasn't interested in her. As a friend, yes. But he didn't want to go to the prom with her and he never showed any interest in wanting to date her or her be his girlfriend. He was obsessed with all these other girls.  I don't think he disliked her but I just don't think he was interested in the way she was interested in him.

As for a response to this thread, I think in the case of Elliot Rodger, rejection by girls was definitely the main motive. Even though by the looks of things, he never even approached women. His standards were way to high and he just expected women to flock on over to him. He made no attempt to even befriend any women let alone date them.

Most of these school shooters are awkward outcasts. And with the except of Dylan and Eric, most of them had no friends or girlfriends. Dylan and Eric definitely had it a lot better than some of these school shooters. They had each other and they had a pretty decent amount of friends too.

You rarely, if ever, hear about a school shooter being the popular guy at school with a girlfriend going and shooting up his school. I don't know the actual statistics, but I'd say, that yes, lack of success with girls was a big part for quite a few of these shooters. I'm not saying it's the main reason or the only reason but I'd say it is definitely at the top.

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I recall Jaylen Fryberg as being an example of a "popular" mass shooter. Shortly after he lured some of his friends to a table at the cafeteria via text, he walked around the table and calmly shot them. He sent another text out detailing his apologies, as well as funeral plans.

He's an exception to the rule, but I think if you truly looked at the lives of some of the shooters you'd see just normal kids. I don't think getting shot down by girls is a prime cause, mainly because I doubt they get that far. Unless, like you said, they feel angry that the females aren't just flocking to them with no effort.

radaddio wrote:

Jenn wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

radaddio wrote:

It might be more  a matter of correlation rather than causation. If you're shy and withdrawn, making connection with persons you desire will be near impossible. I wouldn't saw it's a matter of attraction with Eric and Dylan, since there were girls who thought they were just that. It was always their personalities that sabotaged them.

This. I was about to say just that about the attractiveness factor and didn't know how to put the rest into words. Eric and Dylan weren't ugly by most measures;  Dylan wasn't AS conventionally handsome as Eric, but most people wouldn't say he was physically repulsive (it would be a cold day in Hell before I would) and there are at least two girls from CHS we know of who had some attraction to Dylan at some point, Marla Foust and Robyn Anderson. But he didn't seem to pick up on it or know. I can relate to him in that way. After I graduated I got so many people telling me that I was cute and that they wanted to date me but didn't think I'd be interested - when I hadn't seen myself as attractive at all, because high school and the teen years are hell on your self-image. I think that's a common thing in high school.

I disagree about Robyn. I think Dylan knew Robyn was interested in him but he just wasn't interested in her. As a friend, yes. But he didn't want to go to the prom with her and he never showed any interest in wanting to date her or her be his girlfriend. He was obsessed with all these other girls.  I don't think he disliked her but I just don't think he was interested in the way she was interested in him.

As for a response to this thread, I think in the case of Elliot Rodger, rejection by girls was definitely the main motive. Even though by the looks of things, he never even approached women. His standards were way to high and he just expected women to flock on over to him. He made no attempt to even befriend any women let alone date them.

Most of these school shooters are awkward outcasts. And with the except of Dylan and Eric, most of them had no friends or girlfriends. Dylan and Eric definitely had it a lot better than some of these school shooters. They had each other and they had a pretty decent amount of friends too.

You rarely, if ever, hear about a school shooter being the popular guy at school with a girlfriend going and shooting up his school. I don't know the actual statistics, but I'd say, that yes, lack of success with girls was a big part for quite a few of these shooters. I'm not saying it's the main reason or the only reason but I'd say it is definitely at the top.

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I recall Jaylen Fryberg as being an example of a "popular" mass shooter. Shortly after he lured some of his friends to a table at the cafeteria via text, he walked around the table and calmly shot them. He sent another text out detailing his apologies, as well as funeral plans.

He's an exception to the rule, but I think if you truly looked at the lives of some of the shooters you'd see just normal kids. I don't think getting shot down by girls is a prime cause, mainly because I doubt they get that far. Unless, like you said, they feel angry that the females aren't just flocking to them with no effort.

Yea and it said he was 'depressed' over 'a recent breakup'. That a girl broke up with him because he became violent and also, he asked another girl out but she was dating his cousin instead of him. So, once again, a girl/woman was a factor.

True, but he still breaks the mold of awkward outcast. In spite of his violent personality, he was still able to achieve a relationship. He had friends also. Well, until he shot most of them...

Ivan wrote:

Jenn wrote:

radaddio wrote:

Jenn wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

radaddio wrote:

It might be more  a matter of correlation rather than causation. If you're shy and withdrawn, making connection with persons you desire will be near impossible. I wouldn't saw it's a matter of attraction with Eric and Dylan, since there were girls who thought they were just that. It was always their personalities that sabotaged them.

This. I was about to say just that about the attractiveness factor and didn't know how to put the rest into words. Eric and Dylan weren't ugly by most measures;  Dylan wasn't AS conventionally handsome as Eric, but most people wouldn't say he was physically repulsive (it would be a cold day in Hell before I would) and there are at least two girls from CHS we know of who had some attraction to Dylan at some point, Marla Foust and Robyn Anderson. But he didn't seem to pick up on it or know. I can relate to him in that way. After I graduated I got so many people telling me that I was cute and that they wanted to date me but didn't think I'd be interested - when I hadn't seen myself as attractive at all, because high school and the teen years are hell on your self-image. I think that's a common thing in high school.

I disagree about Robyn. I think Dylan knew Robyn was interested in him but he just wasn't interested in her. As a friend, yes. But he didn't want to go to the prom with her and he never showed any interest in wanting to date her or her be his girlfriend. He was obsessed with all these other girls.  I don't think he disliked her but I just don't think he was interested in the way she was interested in him.

As for a response to this thread, I think in the case of Elliot Rodger, rejection by girls was definitely the main motive. Even though by the looks of things, he never even approached women. His standards were way to high and he just expected women to flock on over to him. He made no attempt to even befriend any women let alone date them.

Most of these school shooters are awkward outcasts. And with the except of Dylan and Eric, most of them had no friends or girlfriends. Dylan and Eric definitely had it a lot better than some of these school shooters. They had each other and they had a pretty decent amount of friends too.

You rarely, if ever, hear about a school shooter being the popular guy at school with a girlfriend going and shooting up his school. I don't know the actual statistics, but I'd say, that yes, lack of success with girls was a big part for quite a few of these shooters. I'm not saying it's the main reason or the only reason but I'd say it is definitely at the top.

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I recall Jaylen Fryberg as being an example of a "popular" mass shooter. Shortly after he lured some of his friends to a table at the cafeteria via text, he walked around the table and calmly shot them. He sent another text out detailing his apologies, as well as funeral plans.

He's an exception to the rule, but I think if you truly looked at the lives of some of the shooters you'd see just normal kids. I don't think getting shot down by girls is a prime cause, mainly because I doubt they get that far. Unless, like you said, they feel angry that the females aren't just flocking to them with no effort.

Yea and it said he was 'depressed' over 'a recent breakup'. That a girl broke up with him because he became violent and also, he asked another girl out but she was dating his cousin instead of him. So, once again, a girl/woman was a factor.

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Yes, he'd be an exception because he did have a girlfriend. But he was also a lot older than most of the shooters we discuss. I'm not really sure what his motivation was. A copycat maybe? He wanted to outdo other shooters in terms of body count? It says he was always asking how many people he killed.

I don't think that rejection by girls and being an outcast is a contributing factor to every shooting but I do think it is in the majority of them. Especially school shootings more so than other shootings.

Charles Whitman would be another example of a shooter who had a wife and friends that went on a shooting spree. But I believe that had something to do with his brain tumor.

Really all we can do is speculate. Obviously all shooters have some kind of mental illness but what finally drives them to commit murder, I don't know if we'll ever know what the reasons are.

Eric hated being a little dweeby guy who never got any respect. He wanted to be seen as a big strong man. Society tells us that big strong men get the women that they want. Being rejected over and over and over again ate away at him because it reinforced his sense of masculine inadequacy.

"Why can't I get any?" he asked. What was he doing wrong? What was it about him that made girls not want to get involved with him? If he could have found a girl who wanted to be with him, it would have given him a new lease on life.

If both Eric and Dylan had been able to find girlfriends, they wouldn't have gone NBK. Having girlfriends wouldn't have made their lives perfect, but it would have given them a reason to live.

But how would Eric have dealt with finding a girlfriend and then being dumped by her? Not well at all. I can see him stalking her, even threatening her.

I think lack of both physical and emotional intimacy played a huge part in the attack. Dylan made it obvious that he was alone and craved companionship. Eric's last journal entry featured him complaining about of getting sex no matter how nice he was to girls. Being a girlfriend-less virgin in a jock based environment like Columbine can be a living Hell. I honestly believe NBK would have been averted had Eric met a girl. Losing your virginity gives a HUGE boost of confidence and that's what he needed. Dylan on the other hand would have needed a long term kind of deal. I don't see sex satisfying his urges like I do Eric.

Eric wanted something physical to give himself value.
Dylan wanted something emotional to give his life value.

Nirvana92 wrote:

I think lack of both physical and emotional intimacy played a huge part in the attack. Dylan made it obvious that he was alone and craved companionship. Eric's last journal entry featured him complaining about of getting sex no matter how nice he was to girls. Being a girlfriend-less virgin in a jock based environment like Columbine can be a living Hell. I honestly believe NBK would have been averted had Eric met a girl. Losing your virginity gives a HUGE boost of confidence and that's what he needed. Dylan on the other hand would have needed a long term kind of deal. I don't see sex satisfying his urges like I do Eric.

Eric wanted something physical to give himself value.
Dylan wanted something emotional to give his life value.

I think Eric's hatred and sadism went a lot deeper than a mere frustration at his lack of a sex life. Even his sexual fantasies in his journals are very brutal and violent.

Venganza wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I think lack of both physical and emotional intimacy played a huge part in the attack. Dylan made it obvious that he was alone and craved companionship. Eric's last journal entry featured him complaining about of getting sex no matter how nice he was to girls. Being a girlfriend-less virgin in a jock based environment like Columbine can be a living Hell. I honestly believe NBK would have been averted had Eric met a girl. Losing your virginity gives a HUGE boost of confidence and that's what he needed. Dylan on the other hand would have needed a long term kind of deal. I don't see sex satisfying his urges like I do Eric.

Eric wanted something physical to give himself value.
Dylan wanted something emotional to give his life value.

I think Eric's hatred and sadism went a lot deeper than a mere frustration at his lack of a sex life. Even his sexual fantasies in his journals are very brutal and violent.

Agree. A gf likely could've pacified EH long enough to divert NBK, but he was going to flip & do something catastrophic eventually in life.


I see Eric as being/looking a lot like Zed from Pulp Fiction

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I KNEW there was a sound reason I'm proud to call you a friend

That's definitely an excellent response, and one I'd post myself.

Everyone here brings up valid points, and I personally think that failure with girls is a huge contributing factor in most school.shootings/other massacres.

If course there will always be exceptions, but those aren't the majority. I know it's an unending quest, but I just want to finally "understand" these shooters as much as possible.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

I see Eric as being/looking a lot like Zed from Pulp Fiction

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OMFG YAS

I think he looks more like an even mix between the two, but I can totally imagine Eric being exactly like him.

hahahaha

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Yep.

Eric and Dylan could of gotten some play but they set their standards to high. I mean if I knew I was going to die, I would have sex with anything just to experience it lol. Dylan should of smashed Robyn and Eric could of gotten some goth chick into the same stuff as he was, but like I said they only went after girls they knew they'd never get.

Violenta wrote:

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person to notice that a lot of the mass shooters (E&D obviously included), were either likely awkward, shy virgins, or extremely unattractive to women. Especially Elliot Rodger, Chris Harper, and the list goes on and on.

Anyone know of any serious discussion into this? I can imagine lack of sexual activity, constantly being made to feel unattractive, and the fact that most guys are judged by their peers for their success (or lack of) with females. Just seriously contemplating the possibility of this aspect factoring into a lot of mass shootings.

I'm still a virgin, and am quite sad about it but at the same time dreams of love are unrealistic due to Anxiety, unattractiveness, and Aspergers.

slippy123 wrote:

Eric and Dylan could of gotten some play but they set their standards to high. I mean if I knew I was going to die, I would have sex with anything just to experience it lol. Dylan should of smashed Robyn and Eric could of gotten some goth chick into the same stuff as he was, but like I said they only went after girls they knew they'd never get.

Honestly though, if he did do it with Robyn, we would never know. It would have been what 2 days before the massacre and I doubt Robyn would have been setting interviews up about taking his V card... nice pun...

He kissed Devon on the forehead after they danced, almost like a goodbye. It was platonic I imagine but she had been with Zach for a couple of years. I think regardless his mind was made up. So unless he was restrained physically he was going to commit the massacre.

There is so much pressure for teenagers, especially boys to be more "alpha" There's really no "right' age to lose your virginity. Females have a hard time too, and the thought that they can just snap their fingers and guys will run to them is false. It's also false that a guy who doesn't date by 17 is somehow damaged. I think it was more of the fitting in thing for E and D when it came to girls. Eric was around 2 "alphas" all of his life and Eric while very smart and some say handsome, he had health issues, was skinny and had very different interests then the girls he was meeting at school. Dylan was shy, lanky and unconventional. He was also dealing with a host of issues that I doubt most teenage girls could handle. Hell, if he didn't get help when he entered college and then adulthood he probably would still have issues. It was one more aspect of their lives that they didn't feel like they could connect with. Like Dylan wrote "being human without the possibility of humanity" something like that.  

There was an article I posted, which I will find,  It's Jeff Klass who talks about this. His book is far better than Cullens IMHO

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QuestionMark wrote:

Holy HELL! I would gladly rupture my own eardrums if I was forced to listen to that more then once.  With that being said, he sounds better then half the shit that is played daily on the radio.

I also have little doubt this guy is on a watch list somewhere.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I also have little doubt this guy is on a watch list somewhere.

Well he did pepper spray a dude over a Sonic game, so I would concur with this statement.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Holy HELL! I would gladly rupture my own eardrums if I was forced to listen to that more then once.  With that being said, he sounds better then half the shit that is played daily on the radio.

I also have little doubt this guy is on a watch list somewhere.

That's Christian Weston Chandler, aka "Chris-chan," aka possibly the single biggest "omega male"/target of Internet mockery in the entire history of computers. He suffers from Aspergers, ran around nude in one of his videos (I think--I wouldn't watch it at gunpoint), and is now living as a woman. A huge target of 4chan, Encyclopedia Dramatica, etc., all the dark places that we can only thank God didn't exist when Eric and Dyldo were messing around on AOL.

If Errogant and Dyldo thought Nick Baumgart was "a complete and utter fag" and "an immature weakling," God only knows what they'd do to THIS guy.

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

If Errogant and Dyldo thought Nick Baumgart was "a complete and utter fag" and "an immature weakling," God only knows what they'd do to THIS guy.  

Nothing that Bluespike, Clyde Cash, and Blanca Weiss haven't already done to him. 

I guess I always thought it was less about sex and more about just having a connection, physical or emotional, with someone and feeling like they belong. It seems like with all of these guys - E&D, Elliot, Randy, Cho, Lanza - they felt like outcasts to both men and women. I think the fact that it was hard to make personal connections is why it is also likely that they didn't have sexual relationships as well.

I personally think if Cho had a real friend he would have been distracted from those horrible thoughts that consumed his mind.

The bullying in his early childhood didn't enable him to gain enough confidence to make emotional connections outside his own family. He was ridiculed for being different and that's why he found solace in E&D - they were different but they also stood up for themselves. Cho thought that was the one true way to stand up for himself.

He was fighting demons in his mind for years.

This is going to sound a bit disrespectful but I always thought Elliot Rodger was a joke. Textbook narcissist that couldn't deal with rejection.

Randy was a bit of a joke too but in other ways.

Lanza was a pedophile who obsessed over children. Nothing was saving him.

Ivan wrote:

This is going to sound a bit disrespectful but I always thought Elliot Rodger was a joke. Textbook narcissist that couldn't deal with rejection.

Randy was a bit of a joke too but in other ways.

Lanza was a pedophile who obsessed over children. Nothing was saving him.

Do you think there was hope for E&D? Of all of them, I believe maybe they could have been saved. I don't know if it's because they were so young or because I have studied Columbine more in depth than other shootings...

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

This is going to sound a bit disrespectful but I always thought Elliot Rodger was a joke. Textbook narcissist that couldn't deal with rejection.

Randy was a bit of a joke too but in other ways.

Lanza was a pedophile who obsessed over children. Nothing was saving him.

Do you think there was hope for E&D? Of all of them, I believe maybe they could have been saved. I don't know if it's because they were so young or because I have studied Columbine more in depth than other shootings...

Eric yes, Dylan no.

I think if Eric never got involved with Dylan he might have had a chance. Kid had anger problems but the worst he was doing was pelting snowballs at car windows and playing neighborhood pranks.

Yes, he broke into the van with Dylan (shows some real sociopathic behavior there) but I don't think it was entirely his idea; and it wouldn't surprise me if it was Dylan's idea either.

Dylan I truly believe was a sociopath with a black heart. I think he could have shot up a workplace or ended up doing something like Robert Hawkins. He was talking about going on shooting sprees when Eric was writing about getting revenge on people who screwed him.

Randy was saving himself for ember though she is real, she is a ghost girl who live in another dimension, I think ?

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I also have little doubt this guy is on a watch list somewhere.

Well he did pepper spray a dude over a Sonic game, so I would concur with this statement.

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

This is going to sound a bit disrespectful but I always thought Elliot Rodger was a joke. Textbook narcissist that couldn't deal with rejection.

Randy was a bit of a joke too but in other ways.

Lanza was a pedophile who obsessed over children. Nothing was saving him.

Do you think there was hope for E&D? Of all of them, I believe maybe they could have been saved. I don't know if it's because they were so young or because I have studied Columbine more in depth than other shootings...

I think there was hope for both Eric and Dylan. I don't buy into either extreme regarding Dylan. He wasn't a hapless lovesick follower but he also wasn't a monster. He needed a lot of help.

Lanza, no. I have to research James Holmes more..I don't have an opinion on him one way or another right now.

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

 He suffers from Aspergers, ran around nude in one of his videos (I think--I wouldn't watch it at gunpoint)

That had me dying!

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

This is going to sound a bit disrespectful but I always thought Elliot Rodger was a joke. Textbook narcissist that couldn't deal with rejection.

Randy was a bit of a joke too but in other ways.

Lanza was a pedophile who obsessed over children. Nothing was saving him.

Do you think there was hope for E&D? Of all of them, I believe maybe they could have been saved. I don't know if it's because they were so young or because I have studied Columbine more in depth than other shootings...

I think there was hope for both Eric and Dylan. I don't buy into either extreme regarding Dylan. He wasn't a hapless lovesick  follower but he also wasn't a monster. He needed a lot of help.

Lanza, no. I have to research James Holmes more..I don't have an opinion on him one way or another right now.

I agree with you on E&D. I think medication could have helped Dylan with his depression. He was already trying to fix things on his own without professional help so he recognized the issues he had.

Don't think Lanza stood a chance TBH. Holmes seemed to have a lot going for him and then he snapped.

James411 wrote:

Randy was saving himself for ember though she is real, she is a ghost girl who live in another dimension, I think ?

Poor guy could have created his own religion on the Internet.

Something like:The Church Of the Holy Ghost

Screamingophelia wrote:

I think there was hope for both Eric and Dylan. I don't buy into either extreme regarding Dylan. He wasn't a hapless lovesick  follower but he also wasn't a monster. He needed a lot of help.

Agree. I just can't make myself believe that Dylan was a total lost cause. But I do think he would have needed some very intense therapy, maybe at a treatment center of some sort. It is clear that he wouldn't have gotten better even if NBK had never happened. He would have only sunken farther down, and more out of touch with reality.

I've said this before but Randy and Eric had a lot in common when it came to obsessing over a "craft" ie. making videos/cartoons and creating/designing doom levels. They also both talked about what it would be like to live in the fantasy worlds they wrote about and created. Am I just drawing a comparison where there isn't one?

Littlelo wrote:

I've said this before but Randy and Eric had a lot in common when it came to obsessing over a "craft" ie. making videos/cartoons and creating/designing doom levels. They also both talked about what it would be like to live in the fantasy worlds they wrote about and created. Am I just drawing a comparison where there isn't one?

Well its true that they loved to create things,but the difference is while Randy killed for his art (literally),Eric only created doom levels for fun.There are rumors that Eric created a Columbine level but I don't think there are proof that he did that

Krieg wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I've said this before but Randy and Eric had a lot in common when it came to obsessing over a "craft" ie. making videos/cartoons and creating/designing doom levels. They also both talked about what it would be like to live in the fantasy worlds they wrote about and created. Am I just drawing a comparison where there isn't one?

Well its true that they loved to create things,but the difference is while Randy killed for his art (literally),Eric only created doom levels for fun.There are rumors that Eric created a Columbine level but I don't think there are proof that he did that

That's true. Eric wanted to mimic his "art" while Randy believed he was a part of it.

I don't think there was a Columbine Doom level created by Eric, but I know they exist now. I do know that some of his wads were lost and weren't able to be recovered.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

 He suffers from Aspergers, ran around nude in one of his videos (I think--I wouldn't watch it at gunpoint)

That had me dying!

His best known video (Chris chan) is him screaming "MY NAME is CHRISTIAN, WESTON, CHANDLER!!!! It is NOT IAN, BRANDON, SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!"

I don't like to beat on poor freaks but this poor guy is pretty effed up.