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 Nineteen years of Columbine

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PostSubject: steppin out    Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Mar 28, 2018 2:54 am

LPorter101 wrote:
Quote :
What, Eric's chest cavity wouldn't have stopped him from getting into the Marines?

Ahhh, the Serbs.  The world's Big Hated Guys before Osama bin Laden showed up.  Ask any kid E&D's age nowadays if they even know what that was all about, you'd be less likely to get a "yes" than if you asked E&D themselves what the Falklands War was.  

Ironically, many members of the Kosovo Liberation Army - the group the Serbs were fighting, the group whose asses *we* saved - went on to fight for al-Qaeda and ISIS. (The same thing happened in Afghanistan - in the '80s, we gave money and arms to Muslim fighters so they could fight the Soviets. Years later, those same fighters ended up killing our troops.)

Ironic that the same news networks that covered NATO's war against the Serbs:

No big shock. Big guv, questionable allies that turn bad, big media, big disasters. The legacy of the 80s through now. Ronnie Lives Forever. Wonder what E&D thought of Ronnie Reagan. Oh, who cares--they were 90s kids, 90s kids had no idea of most of what happened in the 80s.

I watched that seminal first season of "24" recently and laughed at Dennis Hopper turning up as a Serbian villain. I thought, yeahhhh, this was right before 9/11...(it was filmed in 2000-01)

I know a guy whose dream is to be a NAVY SEAL and he's scrawny as hell. And eats McDonalds all the time. Dude you're not gonna be a SEAL...

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Mar 28, 2018 8:36 am

LPorter101 wrote:
Nineteen years ago today, Dylan and his folks were at the University of Arizona. The Klebolds drove down on March 25 and spent four days there.

In 1999, March 25 was a Thursday, so it looks like they spent the whole weekend there.

Love these, gives perspective
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 02, 2018 10:42 am

In 1999, the first Friday in April was Good Friday - April 2.

On that night, Eric Harris wrote the last entry in his journal:

Quote :
Months have passed. Its the first Friday night in the final month. much shit has happened. Vodka has a Tec 9, we test fired all of our babies, we have 6 time clocks ready, 39 crickets, 24 pipe bombs, and the napalm is under construction. Right now I'm trying to get fucked and trying to finish off these time bombs. NBK came quick. why the fuck cant I get any? I mean, I'm nice and considerate and all that shit, but nooooo. I think I try to hard. but I kinda need to considering NBK is closing in. The amount of dramatic irony and foreshadowing is fucking amazing. Everything I see and I hear I incorporate into NBK somehow. Either bombs, clocks, guns, napalm, killing people, any and everything finds some tie to it. feels like a Goddamn movie sometimes. I wanna try to put some mines and trip bombs around this town too maybe. Get a few extra flags on the scoreboard. I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't fucking say, "well thats your fault" because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. no no no dont let the weird looking Eric KID come along, ohh fucking nooo. - 4/3/99

(Would a swaggering, über-confident ladies' man write something like that as his final statement to the world?)

Eric wrote "4/3/99" ... either he got the date wrong, or he made the entry after midnight.

Eric, Dylan, and 13 others had about two-and-a-half more weeks to live.

Also on April 2:

Quote :
Staff Sergeant Gonzales stated that he orginally contacted Harris by telephone on 4-2-99 at Harris' home telephone. Harris told Gonzales that he was planning to attend college but was interested in the Marine Corp. Gonzales asked Harris what his interests included during his intitial interview. Harris told him that he was interested in computers, soccer, and weapons. Harris said that he got A's and B's in school and that he worked at the Black Jack Pizza near the Cooper 7 theatres near S Wadsworth and Bowles Ave. Harris also told Gonzales during this initial interview that he had never done any drugs.

Gonzales set up an appointment for Harris to come into the Littleton office for futher interview and testing on 4-599 at 1300 hrs.

That appointment, made by telephone on a Friday afternoon, would have been for the following Monday.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Really unsettling reading their confessional transcripts regards the basement tapes...sure we all joke. But they really, REALLY wanted to kill. Thank goodness I am not "crazed" gun nut hell bent on Murder. Life is too good-Sorry. I do not miss them or feel sorry for them. It was asked what sentence did they deserve if they lived-Death. They seemed intelligent enough to figure stuff out. School doesn't last forever. Talk about blind hate. Imagine if they actually made the main bombs to work. How many more people would have died.

Apart from all the victims-passed and alive, still injured. I am sorry for Sue...she seems like an awesome lady and a caring Mom. You can see how she agonizes about Dylan and how she really loved him. Split their marriage. Likely still villainised. This morbid cloud hanging over you. Selfish...really. Yeah yeah, they wanted to teach the World a Lesson. Yes Bullying. Cruz I hope gets his comeuppance as well. Not everyone who has had a bad life needs to become a scumbag-Les Brown and Eric Thomas prime examples.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 02, 2018 6:56 pm

LPorter101 wrote:
Eric, Dylan, and 13 others had about two-and-a-half more weeks to live.

This reminds me of something I think Eric said in TBT, something along the lines of "It's a weird feeling knowing you're going to be dead in two weeks".

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 03, 2018 11:26 am

LPorter101 wrote:
In 1999, the first Friday in April was Good Friday - April 2.

On that night, Eric Harris wrote the last entry in his journal:

Quote :
Months have passed. Its the first Friday night in the final month. much shit has happened. Vodka has a Tec 9, we test fired all of our babies, we have 6 time clocks ready, 39 crickets, 24 pipe bombs, and the napalm is under construction. Right now I'm trying to get fucked and trying to finish off these time bombs. NBK came quick. why the fuck cant I get any? I mean, I'm nice and considerate and all that shit, but nooooo. I think I try to hard. but I kinda need to considering NBK is closing in. The amount of dramatic irony and foreshadowing is fucking amazing. Everything I see and I hear I incorporate into NBK somehow. Either bombs, clocks, guns, napalm, killing people, any and everything finds some tie to it. feels like a Goddamn movie sometimes. I wanna try to put some mines and trip bombs around this town too maybe. Get a few extra flags on the scoreboard. I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't fucking say, "well thats your fault" because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. no no no dont let the weird looking Eric KID come along, ohh fucking nooo. - 4/3/99

(Would a swaggering, über-confident ladies' man write something like that as his final statement to the world?)

Eric wrote "4/3/99" ... either he got the date wrong, or he made the entry after midnight.

I never noticed that before. Damn Eric, stop trying to confuse us...
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 05, 2018 10:22 am

On Monday, April 5, 1999, Eric Harris met with the Marine recruiter:

Quote :
Gonzales set up an appointment for Harris to come into the Littleton office for futher interview and testing on 4-599 at 1300 hrs. Gonzales said that Harris did keep this appointment and showed up driving a Toyota or Nissan with a "Rammstein" sticker on the rear window. Harris was dresssed in black combat boots, black trousers and a black t shirt with the word, "Rammstein" on the front. Gonzales recognized this as a German rock group. Harris took the initial screening test given to all recruits and scored a 46. According to Gonzales this is an average score. During an interview following the test to determine his areas of interest, Harris was given several tags which were labeled with different attributes. Harris chose three tags which were labeled physical fitness, leadership and self reliance, and sefl discipline and self direction. Harris indicated that he was interested in the infantry and was particularly interested in the types of weapons, training and use of demolitions. At the conclusion of the interview, Harris wanted to think about enlisting and wanted to talk to his parents about the decision.

On this date, he had two weeks and one day to live.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 05, 2018 2:57 pm

LPorter101 wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 1999, Eric Harris met with the Marine recruiter:

Quote :
Gonzales set up an appointment for Harris to come into the Littleton office for futher interview and testing on 4-599 at 1300 hrs. Gonzales said that Harris did keep this appointment and showed up driving a Toyota or Nissan with a "Rammstein" sticker on the rear window. Harris was dresssed in black combat boots, black trousers and a black t shirt with the word, "Rammstein" on the front. Gonzales recognized this as a German rock group. Harris took the initial screening test given to all recruits and scored a 46. According to Gonzales this is an average score. During an interview following the test to determine his areas of interest, Harris was given several tags which were labeled with different attributes. Harris chose three tags which were labeled physical fitness, leadership and self reliance, and sefl discipline and self direction. Harris indicated that he was interested in the infantry and was particularly interested in the types of weapons, training and use of demolitions. At the conclusion of the interview, Harris wanted to think about enlisting and wanted to talk to his parents about the decision.

On this date, he had two weeks and one day to live.

Interesting. I knew he met with the recruiter, but I didn't know it was this soon before the shooting. Also Dylan's college visit in March. It seems like in the weeks before their deaths they were both sort of fantasizing about the adulthood they knew they wouldn't get to experience. I get why they played it vanilla and stuck with their usual routine-there was nothing worth the risk of getting caught and ruining their "Destiny". If I knew I was going to die in a few weeks, I would be doing as much crazy shit as I could get away with just for the hell of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 06, 2018 11:11 pm

On Tuesday, April 6, 1999, did Eric and Dylan buy some propane tanks at Albertson's? Maybe.

Quote :
h) Albertson's video of 4-6-99 where two young men were noticed purchasing a large number of propane tanks. No video available.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2018 6:17 am

On the morning of Monday, April 12, 1999, Wayne Harris flew to Duluth:
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Quote :
CN 3493 Yahoo Maps & "Mon 0630" Wayne Harris' flight from Centennial Airport to Duluth on 4-12-99 @ 6:30 am

Eric, Dylan, and 13 others had little more than a week to live.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2018 5:10 pm

Thanks for doing this, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]! It gives some great perspective.


Do you have a document of the dates or something for this?
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2018 8:37 pm

1891 wrote:
Thanks for doing this, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]! It gives some great perspective.

You're more than welcome. Very Happy

Quote :
Do you have a document of the dates or something for this?

No, not really. Every day I type things like "4 12 99 columbine" into Google to see what comes up.

By the way, I didn't forget Eric's birthday, but I was really busy on Monday and didn't get around to updating the thread. I knew that others would take note of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2018 8:49 pm

Here's an interesting little tidbit for tomorrow's date:

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2018 9:26 pm

LPorter101 wrote:
Here's an interesting little tidbit for tomorrow's date:

Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Alterc10

i wonder if the kids were eric and dylan or t-coat mafia members if any were left.

why are they even associated with the t-coat mafia. dusters are actually pretty cool, i'd wear a black one but i don't want to look like a school shooter or get my school all butthurt. really ruined a cool dressing style.

edit: i honestly think eric and dylan said they were t-coat mafia members to make it seem like they were wearing dusters for that so nobody would be suspicious on the day of the shooting

also i once got in trouble for wearing a pocketless tan duster:roll: yes i'll hide my assault 1 shot pellet gun and my airsoft spring pistol i'm sure that will do a lot of damage and destruction yes

ugh people are so paranoid about you being a shooter these days.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2018 9:38 pm

eldigato wrote:
why are they even associated with the t-coat mafia.

Well I take it there weren't that many other people at Columbine who wore trench coats to school. Plus, wasn't Chris Morris associated with the Trenchcoat Mafia? Most people probably associated them with it for those reasons alone.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2018 9:58 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
eldigato wrote:
why are they even associated with the t-coat mafia.

Well I take it there weren't that many other people at Columbine who wore trench coats to school. Plus, wasn't Chris Morris associated with the Trenchcoat Mafia? Most people probably associated them with it for those reasons alone.

Robyn referred to E&D in her “Ode to the Trench Coat Mafia” since it wasn’t an “official group” I don’t know that anyone belonged to it...

Eric in his Hitmen for Hire paper referred to his business as the Trench Coat Mafia.

I think Kristin Theibault and Marla Faust were members and Dylan asked Marla to the prom and went On a date with Kristin...

They’d be more of the “alternative kids” in a school like mine back then. I always found trench coats chic.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 12, 2018 10:42 pm

Just wondering, why do you do it on march 1st, why not April 20th?
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 5:09 am

Today, April 16th would've been a Friday in 1999. This will be the final weekend 13 victims and E&H will ever experience and the final 2 full days they're with their families.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 6:31 am

Tomorrow April 17 and that was the night of the CHS Prom "A Night To Remember" I think was the theme.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 6:32 am

LPorter101 wrote:
Here's an interesting little tidbit for tomorrow's date:

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Were they saying the people were in an "altercation" like if it was E and D they were fighting?
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 6:38 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
Tomorrow April 17 and that was the night of the CHS Prom "A Night To Remember" I think was the theme.

And to think that 2-3 days ago was the anniversary of the Titanic sinking. I mention this because 1. it sank in April, and 2. "A night to Remember" is the name of a book/film that got the ship some fame before the 97' film
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 6:45 am

haydenschool wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Tomorrow April 17 and that was the night of the CHS Prom "A Night To Remember" I think was the theme.

And to think that 2-3 days ago was the anniversary of the Titanic sinking. I mention this because 1. it sank in April, and 2. "A night to Remember" is the name of a book/film that got the ship some fame before the 97' film

I didn't know that, so many eerie things and coincidences.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 6:47 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
haydenschool wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Tomorrow April 17 and that was the night of the CHS Prom "A Night To Remember" I think was the theme.

And to think that 2-3 days ago was the anniversary of the Titanic sinking. I mention this because 1. it sank in April, and 2. "A night to Remember" is the name of a book/film that got the ship some fame before the 97' film

I didn't know that, so many eerie things and coincidences.

As Bill Nye would say, "Well now you know"
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 7:33 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
Were they saying the people were in an "altercation" like if it was E and D they were fighting?
There is more information on this, interviews with Smith and her husband on 13535 -13539.

She used the word "confrontation" when she described what she saw with the cars during the interview. She first discussed seeing someone who matched Eric's description walking up the stairs by the library/cafeteria and another boy that she couldn't really see in a trench coat by the soccer field. Then, about ten to fifteen minutes later, she saw a black BMW "tailgating" a white Honda as they walked north on Pierce by the school. They walked west along the path by Bowles and noticed the same two cars near the entrance of Clement Park, with the BMW still tailgating the Honda.

She also discussed an incident with several young males near the open gym door on a different day.

I think her husband said that the day on which they saw the group of males was the same day that they saw the cars. He couldn't name the models but said that the white car could have been a Honda or Toyota. He said that as they approached Bowles, going north on Pierce, the  white car was "chasing" the black car. He also said that when they got close to the entrance to the library, the two cars were at the IHOP across the street and there were police cars there with lights on. He described the encounter with the young male as happening on a different day. The male was walking up the grassy area next to the stairs as they walked down and there may have been another male at the top of the stairs, near the entrance to the school. He said that his wife had subsequently identified the male near the stairs as one of the Columbine shooters after seeing him on television.

I would guess that she called it an "altercation" because it looked like a situation where the person in back was trying to chase down the person in front to confront him about something. They disagreed on which car was chasing the other one, according to the reports.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 1:34 pm

sscc wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Were they saying the people were in an "altercation" like if it was E and D they were fighting?
There is more information on this, interviews with Smith and her husband on 13535 -13539.

She used the word "confrontation" when she described what she saw with the cars during the interview. She first discussed seeing someone who matched Eric's description walking up the stairs by the library/cafeteria and another boy that she couldn't really see in a trench coat by the soccer field. Then, about ten to fifteen minutes later, she saw a black BMW "tailgating" a white Honda as they walked north on Pierce by the school. They walked west along the path by Bowles and noticed the same two cars near the entrance of Clement Park, with the BMW still tailgating the Honda.

She also discussed an incident with several young males near the open gym door on a different day.

I think her husband said that the day on which they saw the group of males was the same day that they saw the cars. He couldn't name the models but said that the white car could have been a Honda or Toyota. He said that as they approached Bowles, going north on Pierce, the  white car was "chasing" the black car. He also said that when they got close to the entrance to the library, the two cars were at the IHOP across the street and there were police cars there with lights on. He described the encounter with the young male as happening on a different day. The male was walking up the grassy area next to the stairs as they walked down and there may have been another male at the top of the stairs, near the entrance to the school. He said that his wife had subsequently identified the male near the stairs as one of the Columbine shooters after seeing him on television.

I would guess that she called it an "altercation" because it looked like a situation where the person in back was trying to chase down the person in front to confront him about something. They disagreed on which car was chasing the other one, according to the reports.




Just another infuriating example of how the witness reports are SUCH a mess to read and get accurate info from. Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 7:56 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Tomorrow April 17 and that was the night of the CHS Prom "A Night To Remember" I think was the theme.

I've always thought it was New York New York? I remember hearing it in some documentary "... a homage to the Big apple..."
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 8:23 pm

23september wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Tomorrow April 17 and that was the night of the CHS Prom "A Night To Remember" I think was the theme.

I've always thought it was New York New York? I remember hearing it in some documentary "... a homage to the Big apple..."

That was the after party theme I think ...

Or was that casino night??
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 9:30 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
23september wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Tomorrow April 17 and that was the night of the CHS Prom "A Night To Remember" I think was the theme.

I've always thought it was New York New York? I remember hearing it in some documentary "... a homage to the Big apple..."

That was the after party theme I think ...

Or was that casino night??

I can't find the documentary and google isn't very helpful, I'm really confused but i'll look into it tomorrow if no one already knows!
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 pm

23september wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Tomorrow April 17 and that was the night of the CHS Prom "A Night To Remember" I think was the theme.

I've always thought it was New York New York? I remember hearing it in some documentary "... a homage to the Big apple..."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Whatever group people belonged to, everyone was welcome at the after-prom party last weekend. The theme was "New York, New York."

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 11:28 pm

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At senior prom over the weekend, the white tablecloths were covered with flower petals and candles, and students slow-danced to the theme song, "The Way You Look Tonight.''

It all seemed so dreamlike.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 12:59 am

LPorter101 wrote:
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At senior prom over the weekend, the white tablecloths were covered with flower petals and candles, and students slow-danced to the theme song, "The Way You Look Tonight.''

It all seemed so dreamlike.

Thank you!

I read somewhere that Cassie didn’t go to prom but there’s that pic of her in the black dress putting lipstick on.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 1:59 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Someone posted a YT clip with just the E&D parts from I'm Not Ashamed... I just watched that clip a few days ago. I haven't watched the whole movie, but I think you're right, that scene was probably not that far off...

I think, partly because they did get better actors than what past documentaries have had... whatever that one documentary was with the actor playing Dylan who was snarling all the time really didn't play his part well... he was a total mismatch. Not sure I can get behind the I'm Not Ashamed film, but I didn't think it was unrealistic unlike other scenes in other films!

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 2:04 am

EthanEmerson wrote:
Screamingophelia Someone posted a YT clip with just the E&D parts from I'm Not Ashamed... I just watched that clip a few days ago. I haven't watched the whole movie, but I think you're right, that scene was probably not that far off...

I think, partly because they did get better actors than what past documentaries have had... whatever that one documentary was with the actor playing Dylan who was snarling all the time really didn't play his part well... he was a total mismatch. Not sure I can get behind the I'm Not Ashamed film, but I didn't think it was unrealistic unlike other scenes in other films!

I think the documentary you are talking about is Zero Hour. Lord the acting was terrible, I nearly couldn't take it seriously, it almost felt like a comedy rendition. The documentary itself I thought was pretty good, just god damn the acting.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 2:15 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
LPorter101 wrote:
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At senior prom over the weekend, the white tablecloths were covered with flower petals and candles, and students slow-danced to the theme song, "The Way You Look Tonight.''

It all seemed so dreamlike.

Thank you!

I read somewhere that Cassie didn’t go to prom but there’s that pic of her in the black dress putting lipstick on.

You're welcome.



It seems that Cassie did go to prom:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :
There she was in the photos, tiny and on her rocking horse, older with braces, serving as a flower girl in someone's wedding, standing with her family around the Christmas tree, jumping on a trampoline and putting on eye make-up and a long black dress for the prom.

"James" wrote her a letter after she died:

Quote :
"I remember hanging out for hours at after-prom two and a half days earlier. I know you're in a better place and I can't wait to be with you and also to be as lucky as you and meet the maker. - James.''

Not to be cruel, but I wouldn't say that Cassie was "lucky"...

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 2:36 am

EthanEmerson wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Someone posted a YT clip with just the E&D parts from I'm Not Ashamed... I just watched that clip a few days ago. I haven't watched the whole movie, but I think you're right, that scene was probably not that far off...

I'd rather watch a Cullen directed Columbine movie than have to watch I'm Not Ashamed, that movie is Christian fundamentalist propaganda from what I've heard.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 2:51 am

[quote="Heyheyhey"]

I think the documentary you are talking about is Zero Hour. Lord the acting was terrible, I nearly couldn't take it seriously, it almost felt like a comedy rendition. The documentary itself I thought was pretty good, just god damn the acting.[/quote]

Ah yep that was it, I blocked the name from my memory haha it must have been worse than I remember if I can't even remember the title!

I don't know why but shortcodes and smileys show up as plain text in my posts...
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 8:54 am

LPorter101 wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

At senior prom over the weekend, the white tablecloths were covered with flower petals and candles, and students slow-danced to the theme song, "The Way You Look Tonight.''

It all seemed so dreamlike.
thank you
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 1:39 am

At this very moment nineteen years ago, it was late afternoon on a Sunday - the last Sunday of their lives.

Of the fifteen who died on 4/20, thirteen were looking forward to the week ahead, and the weekend after that, and all the days and weeks and months and years and decades that loomed far off in the future. Only Eric and Dylan knew that they wouldn't make it past Tuesday.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 4:14 am

LPorter101 wrote:
At this very moment nineteen years ago, it was late afternoon on a Sunday - the last Sunday of their lives.

Of the fifteen who died on 4/20, thirteen were looking forward to the week ahead, and the weekend after that, and all the days and weeks and months and years and decades that loomed far off in the future. Only Eric and Dylan knew that they wouldn't make it past Tuesday.

Being in Denver right now, I was watching the sunset and it was so beautiful and I had a very similar thought.

Tomorrow morning Dylan woke up and filmed the breakfast run video with Dustin and other classmates, knowing they may be dead and he most assuredly would be.
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PostSubject: bagulabhalgaublahlg   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 4:29 am

QuestionMark wrote:
EthanEmerson wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Someone posted a YT clip with just the E&D parts from I'm Not Ashamed... I just watched that clip a few days ago. I haven't watched the whole movie, but I think you're right, that scene was probably not that far off...

I'd rather watch a Cullen directed Columbine movie than have to watch I'm Not Ashamed, that movie is Christian fundamentalist propaganda from what I've heard.

"I'm Not Ashamed" is not a very good film but it's probably not quite as awful as you'd been told. It is at least SLIGHTLY close to even-handed when dealing with Rachel as a character. She is made out to be troubled about her faith and is not really made out to be a "saint." I have to give the movie that much. The actress who plays her, while obviously a lot taller than the real Rachel, does a decent job. And the Duck Dynasty people who are in the movie aren't in it for very long, which is pretty nice.

The scenes with Eric and Dylan play out curiously like they're trying to troll people like us at this board, the people who have obsessively studied everything about E&D--there is a scene of Eric spinning something on a table like in "Eric Inside Columbine," there is a cheesy recreation of a "Hitmen For Hire"-like video, an atheistic cigarette-smoking character Rachel talks to who is almost certainly meant to be Brooks Brown, and Dylan is seen at the prom, sporting that knot in the back of his hair and slow-dancing with a girl who is staring off into the distance. Nick Baumgart, Rachel's prom date, has been amusingly recast as a giggly Asian dude.
NOTE: in keeping with Cullen's basic theory, Dylan is made out to be a nicer person than Eric. He is shown muttering things at Eric like "that's crazy bro" when Eric blabbers about killing everybody.

Of course, the central controversy is that Richard Castaldo's (unlikely IMO) testimony about E&D is exploited in the film, with E&D snarling at Rachel about God before killing her. So that means the "do you believe in God" thing has gone from being Valeen, to Cassie, to Rachel. If they were to make a movie about Kelly Fleming I bet they'd have them asking *her*, too.

The movie does promote Christian values by having Rachel abandon her friends--God knows what real-life girls these people are based off of--because they drink and hook up with boys. These are actually the most laughable scenes in the movie. Guess I couldn't avoid it.

Rachel Scott remains something of an odd figure in the Columbine because everyone tries to lay claim to her--her family, the Christian crowd, and Columbiners of all religious stripes. Many Columbiners seem to leverage their own uncomfortableness with her fundamentalist beliefs by claiming that "deep down" she was an atheist or at least deeply conflicted about her beliefs. Or, more hilariously, that Rachel herself was some sort of a Columbine bully in contrast with her saintly image, with an apocryphal story about her pushing another girl down the stairs. It's one of the more fascinating aspects of Columbine discussion since she has now surpassed Cassie as the most famous of the 13 victims.

Tomorrow marks the anniversary of Waco (1993) and Oklahoma City (1995) which influenced Columbine in a strange sort of 90s violence cycle that I often refer to.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 5:43 am

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
"I'm Not Ashamed" is not a very good film but it's probably not quite as awful as you'd been told.

The way you just described it makes it sound even worse then I thought.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 5:57 am

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
EthanEmerson wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Someone posted a YT clip with just the E&D parts from I'm Not Ashamed... I just watched that clip a few days ago. I haven't watched the whole movie, but I think you're right, that scene was probably not that far off...

I'd rather watch a Cullen directed Columbine movie than have to watch I'm Not Ashamed, that movie is Christian fundamentalist propaganda from what I've heard.

"I'm Not Ashamed" is not a very good film but it's probably not quite as awful as you'd been told.  It is at least SLIGHTLY close to even-handed when dealing with Rachel as a character.  She is made out to be troubled about her faith and is not really made out to be a "saint."   I have to give the movie that much.  The actress who plays her, while obviously a lot taller than the real Rachel, does a decent job.  And the Duck Dynasty people who are in the movie aren't in it for very long, which is pretty nice.  

The scenes with Eric and Dylan play out curiously like they're trying to troll people like us at this board, the people who have obsessively studied everything about E&D--there is a scene of Eric spinning something on a table like in "Eric Inside Columbine," there is a cheesy recreation of a "Hitmen For Hire"-like video, an atheistic cigarette-smoking character Rachel talks to who is almost certainly meant to be Brooks Brown, and Dylan is seen at the prom, sporting that knot in the back of his hair and slow-dancing with a girl who is staring off into the distance.  Nick Baumgart, Rachel's prom date, has been amusingly recast as a giggly Asian dude.  
NOTE: in keeping with Cullen's basic theory, Dylan is made out to be a nicer person than Eric.  He is shown muttering things at Eric like "that's crazy bro" when Eric blabbers about killing everybody.

Of course, the central controversy is that Richard Castaldo's (unlikely IMO) testimony about E&D is exploited in the film, with E&D snarling at Rachel about God before killing her.  So that means the "do you believe in God" thing has gone from being Valeen, to Cassie, to Rachel.  If they were to make a movie about Kelly Fleming I bet they'd have them asking *her*, too.  

The movie does promote Christian values by having Rachel abandon her friends--God knows what real-life girls these people are based off of--because they drink and hook up with boys.  These are actually the most laughable scenes in the movie.  Guess I couldn't avoid it.

Rachel Scott remains something of an odd figure in the Columbine because everyone tries to lay claim to her--her family, the Christian crowd, and Columbiners of all religious stripes.  Many Columbiners seem to leverage their own  uncomfortableness with her fundamentalist beliefs by claiming that "deep down" she was an atheist or at least deeply conflicted about her beliefs.  Or, more hilariously, that Rachel herself was some sort of a Columbine bully in contrast with her saintly image, with an apocryphal story about her pushing another girl down the stairs.  It's one of the more fascinating aspects of Columbine discussion since she has now surpassed Cassie as the most famous of the 13 victims.

Tomorrow marks the anniversary of Waco (1993) and Oklahoma City (1995) which influenced Columbine in a strange sort of 90s violence cycle that I often refer to.  


The Dylan character staring out into space I interpreted was from Beth Nimmo and Judy Browns insistence that Dylan had a crush on Rachel. I don't believe he did, because you'd think if they were at all compatible Devon would have tried to set them up, since she tried that with Dylan with another girl. Also I feel like they are trying to make it out to be a Shakesperean tragedy with those two.

They lost the magic of Hitmen for Hire which actually makes me laugh due to Erik V and Dylan's fuck ups.

I think the Brooks and Rachel convo actually happened,wasn't something like that in No Easy Answers?

I think Dylan was the "nicer" of the two but I think Dylan was better at covering it up. Though if the bullying was as bad as people say, and we know the tampon or ketchup thing happened since so many people did witness it, Dylan was not as loved as people said he was. He was as angry and violent as Eric was. I think they fed off of each other. Dylan could be angry with Eric and Eric could be depressed and vulnerable with Dylan.
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PostSubject: dyldyl   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 8:00 am

Screamingophelia wrote:

The Dylan character staring out into space I interpreted was from Beth Nimmo and Judy Browns insistence that Dylan had a crush on Rachel. I don't believe he did, because you'd think if they were at all compatible Devon would have tried to set them up, since she tried that with Dylan with another girl. Also I feel like they are trying to make it out to be a Shakesperean tragedy with those two.

They lost the magic of Hitmen for Hire which actually makes me laugh due to Erik V and Dylan's fuck ups.

I think the Brooks and Rachel convo actually happened,wasn't something like that in No Easy Answers?

I think Dylan was the "nicer" of the two but I think Dylan was better at covering it up. Though if the bullying was as bad as people say, and we know the tampon or ketchup thing happened since so many people did witness it, Dylan was not as loved as people said he was. He was as angry and violent as Eric was. I think they fed off of each other. Dylan could be angry with Eric and Eric could be depressed and vulnerable with Dylan.

Oh so Rachel's mom *and* Judy Brown drank the Kool-Aid on that one? I thought literally the only thing we knew for sure about the two of them is that Rachel and Dyl-dyl were in a theater class together. Certainly the gangly six foot whatever Dyldo would have made a hilarious prom date for the quite diminutive Rachel.

*Do* we know the ketchup tampon thing happened? I seem to get thirty different answers from thirty different people around here. I guess Cullen was nice enough to say it "probably" happened, but "the details are murky."

Yes, Brooks wrote an entire chapter about Rachel in his book. He had almost nothing but nice things to say about her. In the movie he aggressively questions "Rachel"'s faith, then sort of backs off when she sticks up for herself. "Oh that's cool." The character is not given a name (there's also a character with another name in place of Richard Castaldo...you'd think they'd use his real name since it's only due to him that anyone repeats the apocryphal story about Eric talking to Rachel before killing her!)

I would have given anything to see a Rocky Hoffschneider character in "I'm Not Ashamed." I guess we sort of got that with the lame "dork boowwwwwling!" scene. I can't remember if any of the trench coat people in the movie wore sunglasses like Chris Morris. The girl Dyldo goes to prom with in the movie doesn't look like Robyn Anderson. Much of the plot of the movie concerns Rachel's relationship with an obnoxiously preening theater-dork guy--who's THAT supposed to be? Much of the rest of the plot is Rachel trying to save a wayward soul, a scruffball dude who steals from convenience stores.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 11:22 am

On Monday, April 19, 1999, the sun rose in Denver at 6:17 a.m. and set at 7:42 p.m.

It was the last full day of their lives. They had already seen their last full Tuesday, their last Wednesday, their last Thursday, their last Friday, their last Saturday, their last Sunday. Their time on this earth was rapidly drawing to a close.

Thirteen people went to bed on Monday night for the last time.

Did Eric and Dylan get any sleep? It's doubtful.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 11:48 am

You know, as I get older, I come to realize just how little I knew about anything - myself or the world around me - when I was 17. The basic elements of who I am now were already there, but they were like the steel frame of a concrete building. So much had yet to be filled in. My mind, my body, and even my soul were still very much under construction.

At 32, I wouldn't say that my life is totally filled in, but my understanding of everything has grown to a degree that I could not have imagined half a lifetime ago.

By committing mass murder, Eric and Dylan relinquished any claim to our sympathy. They do not deserve anything from us. But I do mourn for them - not for the boys who killed, but for the boys who might have found some reason to live and let live. I firmly believe that both boys could have been saved, at least earlier on. (Maybe they were too far gone by 4/20; maybe they weren't.)

Every year, when I mark the anniversary, I reflect on how much my own life has changed over the last year. And then I think about how all the lives that ended on that day might have changed.

The thing about life is that you never know where you are going to end up, certainly not when you are a senior in high school. We oscillate between hope and fear, between joy and sorrow, between ecstasy and agony. Hopefully, we reach a stable equilibrium somewhere along the way. There are always twists and turns, triumphs and tragedies, victories and defeats. But the journey never ends until we die.

After death, do we travel to that faraway land beyond the cosmic sea - the undiscovered country of death? I guess we'll all find out, sooner or later.

If any part of Eric and Dylan is still around, somewhere, in heaven or in hell, or simply floating around as some kind of restless spirit, I wonder whether they're aware of how much they missed. And I wonder how much they regret what they did.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 2:20 pm

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:

The Dylan character staring out into space I interpreted was from Beth Nimmo and Judy Browns insistence that Dylan had a crush on Rachel. I don't believe he did, because you'd think if they were at all compatible Devon would have tried to set them up, since she tried that with Dylan with another girl. Also I feel like they are trying to make it out to be a Shakesperean tragedy with those two.

They lost the magic of Hitmen for Hire which actually makes me laugh due to Erik V and Dylan's fuck ups.

I think the Brooks and Rachel convo actually happened,wasn't something like that in No Easy Answers?

I think Dylan was the "nicer" of the two but I think Dylan was better at covering it up. Though if the bullying was as bad as people say, and we know the tampon or ketchup thing happened since so many people did witness it, Dylan was not as loved as people said he was. He was as angry and violent as Eric was. I think they fed off of each other. Dylan could be angry with Eric and Eric could be depressed and vulnerable with Dylan.

Oh so Rachel's mom *and* Judy Brown drank the Kool-Aid on that one?  I thought literally the only thing we knew for sure about the two of them is that Rachel and Dyl-dyl were in a theater class together.  Certainly the gangly six foot whatever Dyldo would have made a hilarious prom date for the quite diminutive Rachel.  

*Do* we know the ketchup tampon thing happened?  I seem to get thirty different answers from thirty different people around here.  I guess Cullen was nice enough to say it "probably" happened, but "the details are murky."  

Yes, Brooks wrote an entire chapter about Rachel in his book.  He had almost nothing but nice things to say about her.  In the movie he aggressively questions "Rachel"'s faith, then sort of backs off when she sticks up for herself.  "Oh that's cool."  The character is not given a name (there's also a character with another name in place of Richard Castaldo...you'd think they'd use his real name since it's only due to him that anyone repeats the apocryphal story about Eric talking to Rachel before killing her!)

I would have given anything to see a Rocky Hoffschneider character in "I'm Not Ashamed."  I guess we sort of got that with the lame "dork boowwwwwling!" scene.  I can't remember if any of the trench coat people in the movie wore sunglasses like Chris Morris.  The girl Dyldo goes to prom with in the movie doesn't look like Robyn Anderson.  Much of the plot of the movie concerns Rachel's relationship with an obnoxiously preening theater-dork guy--who's THAT supposed to be?  Much of the rest of the plot is Rachel trying to save a wayward soul, a scruffball dude  who steals from convenience stores.  

I think the ketchup thing happened. A friend said he helped Dylan clean up and Sue saw his clothes all stained. However the whole tampon thing is murky to me
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 2:27 pm

LPorter101 wrote:
You know, as I get older, I come to realize just how little I knew about anything - myself or the world around me - when I was 17. The basic elements of who I am now were already there, but they were like the steel frame of a concrete building. So much had yet to be filled in. My mind, my body, and even my soul were still very much under construction.

At 32, I wouldn't say that my life is totally filled in, but my understanding of everything has grown to a degree that I could not have imagined half a lifetime ago.

By committing mass murder, Eric and Dylan relinquished any claim to our sympathy. They do not deserve anything from us. But I do mourn for them - not for the boys who killed, but for the boys who might have found some reason to live and let live. I firmly believe that both boys could have been saved, at least earlier on. (Maybe they were too far gone by 4/20; maybe they weren't.)

Every year, when I mark the anniversary, I reflect on how much my own life has changed over the last year. And then I think about how all the lives that ended on that day might have changed.

The thing about life is that you never know where you are going to end up, certainly not when you are a senior in high school. We oscillate between hope and fear, between joy and sorrow, between ecstasy and agony. Hopefully, we reach a stable equilibrium somewhere along the way. There are always twists and turns, triumphs and tragedies, victories and defeats. But the journey never ends until we die.

After death, do we travel to that faraway land beyond the cosmic sea - the undiscovered country of death? I guess we'll all find out, sooner or later.

If any part of Eric and Dylan is still around, somewhere, in heaven or in hell, or simply floating around as some kind of restless spirit, I wonder whether they're aware of how much they missed. And I wonder how much they regret what they did.




This ^ is dead on accurate! It hits me on a very deep personal level. I truly wish I could go back in time with the knowledge I have now and redo a few things.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 3:10 pm

NBK was actually originally planned for Monday, April 19 as late as April 11, 1999.


Basement tapes transcripts from a tape recorded April 11, 1999. Eric talking:

He says this is total “KMFDM” and that “there are 7 and 1/3 days left.” He gets an odd look on his face, then says, “Fucking bitches.” He then lists five names and says that he’s going to be “one tired motherfucker come Monday, then BOOM! I’ll get shot and die.”


I wonder what made them change from the 19th to the 20th.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 3:16 pm

1891 wrote:
NBK was actually originally planned for Monday, April 19 as late as April 11, 1999.


Basement tapes transcripts from a tape recorded April 11, 1999. Eric talking:

He says this is total “KMFDM” and that “there are 7 and 1/3 days left.” He gets an odd look on his face, then says, “Fucking bitches.” He then lists five names and says that he’s going to be “one tired motherfucker come Monday, then BOOM! I’ll get shot and die.”


I wonder what made them change from the 19th to the 20th.



There is a lot of speculation on this. The most widely believed is that they had to push the date back because Mark Manes kept forgetting to get the last of the ammo they needed.

He finally came through on the 4/19. So NBK was the following day on the 20th.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Nineteen years of Columbine - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 3:43 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
1891 wrote:
NBK was actually originally planned for Monday, April 19 as late as April 11, 1999.


Basement tapes transcripts from a tape recorded April 11, 1999. Eric talking:

He says this is total “KMFDM” and that “there are 7 and 1/3 days left.” He gets an odd look on his face, then says, “Fucking bitches.” He then lists five names and says that he’s going to be “one tired motherfucker come Monday, then BOOM! I’ll get shot and die.”


I wonder what made them change from the 19th to the 20th.



There is a lot of speculation on this. The most widely believed is that they had to push the date back because Mark Manes kept forgetting to get the last of the ammo they needed.

He finally came through on the 4/19. So NBK was the following day on the 20th.


We’ve never figured out why Eric couldn’t buy the ammo did we?
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