Dylan told his father that the jocks gave Eric hell

From Susan Klebold's book:

Quote :

Once, during sophomore year, Dylan said something to Tom about "hating the jocks." Tom asked him if they were giving him a hard time, and Dylan answered with confidence: "They don’t bother me. I’m six four. But they sure give Eric hell."

Would any of the Cullen apologists care to comment on the implications of this statement? This would seem to give some weight to the contention that Eric was bullied.

LPorter101 wrote:

From Susan Klebold's book:

Quote :

Once, during sophomore year, Dylan said something to Tom about "hating the jocks." Tom asked him if they were giving him a hard time, and Dylan answered with confidence: "They don’t bother me. I’m six four. But they sure give Eric hell."

Would any of the Cullen apologists care to comment on the implications of this statement? This would seem to give some weight to the contention that Eric was bullied.

Cullen is a certified doofus.

While there are exceptions, usually bullys seek out smaller weaker targets, so Dylan's comment does seem to make sense.
Dylan might of downplayed the bullying he endured too, as I know admitting something like that to your family, especially as a guy could make you look weak, and Dylan already felt as he was treated like "the runt of the litter".

I don't see many people saying that Eric wasn't bullied at all, but some think that he wasn't bullied nearly as much as the media and others made it out to be.
That thought is substantiated by some 11k interviews where people say they saw Eric bullying other kids more then he was bullied himself, while others stated it was a just select few people that seemed to give him shit.

From the Rocky Mountain News:

Quote :

They are so calm about it all. It's just matter-of-fact: "You guys all will die, and it will be soon," Eric Harris says, no emotion in his voice. Yet their pain drips from them.

They recall how it's always been: the geeks who always got picked on. You name the grade. How girls would never call them back. Even as a senior, a punk freshman "ripped," or picked on him, Dylan Klebold recalled. The freshman didn't get in trouble; he did. It would never stop. Unless he made it stop.

"Only four or five people here didn't rip on me - four or five out of the whole state of Colorado!" Eric Harris moaned to his pal. If he were just able to get in small fistfights, like he used to, Harris says. Now, he'd get suspended, his parents sued. Now, he says, pointing his shotgun ``Arlene'' at the screen, he has no choice.

Hardly a "Cullen apologist" and  I'd say finding an example of Eric being bullied isn't exactly showing that revenge for bullying was the motive. Also, Dylan was the one screaming about jocks in the library which made bullying a motive in the first place, not Eric. Yet "they don't bother me".

"How girls would never call them back" Interesting, that's not bullying; that's just another symptom (like bullying) of being an outcast. Also that last article reads like it's from soon after the massacre, trying to force the bullying narrative, in my opinion.

I'd ask how any of the bullying apologists explain e. g. Dylan's journal being mostly about not having a girlfriend, not bullying, or what "tier" and "wilder wein" and "natural selection" which seem to reference being an animal have to do with bullying per se, or why when Eric rather explicitly said he was about to explain why he was doing it, he didn't mention bullying so much as destruction.

cakeman wrote:

Hardly a "Cullen apologist" and  I'd say finding an example of Eric being bullied isn't exactly showing that revenge for bullying was the motive. Also, Dylan was the one screaming about jocks in the library which made bullying a motive in the first place, not Eric. Yet "they don't bother me".

"How girls would never call them back" Interesting, that's not bullying; that's just another symptom (like bullying) of being an outcast. Also that last article reads like it's from soon after the massacre, trying to force the bullying narrative, in my opinion.

I'd ask how any of the bullying apologists explain e. g. Dylan's journal being mostly about not having a girlfriend, not bullying, or what "tier" and "wilder wein" and "natural selection" which seem to reference being an animal have to do with bullying per se, or why when Eric rather explicitly said he was about to explain why he was doing it, he didn't mention bullying so much as destruction.

I'm not a bullying apologist. I've long contended that both boys' social isolation and alienation were primary contributing factors. Whatever bullying Eric and/or Dylan received added to their feelings of alienation.

The article was written in December 1999 by a reporter who had just seen the basement tapes during their one and only public screening.

Quote :

Rocky Mountain News - December 14, 1999

KILLERS' TAPES HORRIFIC, YET HEARTBREAKING TO WATCH

By Bill Johnson

I am, like so many people, sick of this story. I hate the death, the pain and sorrow that has devastated so many lives. I want all reminders of it to vanish, for all of us to heal.

Still, I am glad I saw the videos. I think you should, too. They should gift wrap them, stick them in with the diapers and the formula whenever a parent goes home with a new child.

Those two boys could have - yes, they could have - been yours. Or mine. The mere thought makes me tremble.

They sit for hours, Wayne's World-style, in overstuffed chairs, telling of how they hate everyone. Everyone. Eric Harris does so while cradling - no, caressing - the shotgun he will use to kill some of those 13 people.

It is the most remarkable three hours of video I think I have ever seen. And, please, someone tell me how those two 17-year-old boys got that way.

And they are babies. Little punk kids. It's what I kept thinking as I watched. Near the end, as they do their dress rehearsal - struggling to don the weapons, knives, pipe bombs and ammunition they would carry into the school, I laughed. Goofy little boys playing soldier. But then, I remembered how it all ended.

They are so calm about it all. It's just matter-of-fact: ``You guys all will die, and it will be soon,'' Eric Harris says, no emotion in his voice. Yet their pain drips from them.

They recall how it's always been: the geeks who always got picked on. You name the grade. How girls would never call them back. Even as a senior, a punk freshman ``ripped,'' or picked on him, Dylan Klebold recalled. The freshman didn't get in trouble; he did. It would never stop. Unless he made it stop.

``Only four or five people here didn't rip on me - four or five out of the whole state of Colorado!'' Eric Harris moaned to his pal. If he were just able to get in small fistfights, like he used to, Harris says. Now, he'd get suspended, his parents sued. Now, he says, pointing his shotgun ``Arlene'' at the screen, he has no choice.

He appears much more introspective, Harris does, and clearly the smarter of the two. He quotes Socrates, explains the Marianas Trench in the Pacific Ocean to Klebold as they discuss the afterlife.

``I hope it's not boring,'' they say. They are at once cool and excited when talking of killing and dying. It reminded me of the way we'd talk as kids about baseball and becoming, maybe, a Yankee.

You see by watching how these two got together. They found each other to share their pain, to lash back at the rejection. Only when they speak of their mothers do they grow somber. They twiddle their fingers in front of their faces. They do not once look at the camera.

Their talk moves easily from GI Joes (Harris: ``I wish I had more so I could play with them'') to pipe bombs and TEC-9s. (Klebold: ``A tray of bullets. How cute!'')

It is odd how you hope, sitting there watching these boys boast about and display the arsenal they have collected, they were only kidding around. But then, there is the last tape, made the morning of April 20. It is short, emotionless.

``Sorry, goodbye,'' the both say.

You remember the dozens of bullets and boxes of shotgun shells you've seen repeatedly over the past three hours. Which one of those killed whom?

I am going to tell my son I love him every chance I get. I'm going to hug him whenever he is around, and ask him constantly about his life. I pretty much do that now, but . . .

I'm sorry. But when I walked out of that room and into the sunshine, it was a vow I made. To love my son better and harder. I see those boys' faces and can think of nothing else right now.

Yes, the article is pretty syrupy. But at least the author is quoting from the actual source material, instead of drawing wild conclusions based on bullshit he pulled out of his ass.

(Fun fact: Dave Cullen has never seen the tapes. Jeffco barred him from the screening in retaliation for some articles he wrote.)

In his journal, Eric expresses his anger over his belief that people are constantly "making fun" of him. Is "making fun" of someone the same thing as "bullying" someone? You tell me.

Quote :

Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, how fucking weak I am and shit, well I will get you all back: ultimate fucking revenge here. you people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidence more, treated me more like senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear your fucking heads off. then again, I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED.

Interesting that he calls Harris the smarter one.

Isolation and alienation seems at least closer to the truth, though I'd say their journals show failure with women is Dylan's chief source of alienation, and socialization Eric's, with bullying and other types of isolation as mostly symptoms of those disease. Don't know why you act like I don't know who Cullen is or haven't read their journals. You also didn't really answer my questions.

cakeman wrote:

Isolation and alienation seems at least closer to the truth, though I'd say failure with women is Dylan's chief source of alienation, and socialization Eric's, with bullying and other types of isolation as mostly symptoms of those disease. Don't know why you act like I don't know who Cullen is or haven't read their journals. You also didn't really answer my questions.

Your questions were addressed to "bullying apologists" ... my answer was that I am not a bullying apologist.

Quote :

I'd ask how any of the bullying apologists explain e. g. Dylan's journal being mostly about not having a girlfriend, not bullying, or what "tier" and "wilder wein" and "natural selection" which seem to reference being an animal have to do with bullying per se, or why when Eric rather explicitly said he was about to explain why he was doing it, he didn't mention bullying so much as destruction.

You are correct that Dylan's journal does not address bullying to any great degree.

Eric was a weak little incel who wanted to feel like a big strong muthafucka. He felt demoralized and humiliated by a world that constantly reinforced his deep-seated feelings of masculine inadequacy. To compensate, he went to great lengths to create a badass persona for himself in the privacy of his journal. But even here, his insecurity seeped in - he sabotaged his efforts by lapsing into occasional bouts of whining. (As Westword reporter Alan Prendergast noted, Eric's journal ended "not with the howl of the wolf-god, but the whine of the pathetic geek who can't land a prom date.")

When I watch the "Eric in Columbine" video, I am struck by his sheepish body language when he encounters the bigger jocks in the hallway, but I am also struck by his angry reactions when he is insulted by the girls in the cafeteria. With apologies to the fangirls, he really does come across as something of a pathetic little dweeb.

If you require further elaboration, please let me know.

The final few words of Eric's journal:

Quote :

I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't fucking say, "well thats your fault" because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. no no no dont let the weird looking Eric KID come along, ohh fucking nooo.

No mention of bullying, per se. But it's pretty clear that the kid felt rejected by his ostensible peers.

Kids who feel rejected, isolated, and alienated from mainstream teenage society are often bullied. But since this particular entry doesn't explicitly mention bullying, let's just go ahead and swallow Cullen's contention that Eric was a swaggering ladies' man who outscored the football team.

LPorter101 wrote:

cakeman wrote:

Isolation and alienation seems at least closer to the truth, though I'd say failure with women is Dylan's chief source of alienation, and socialization Eric's, with bullying and other types of isolation as mostly symptoms of those disease. Don't know why you act like I don't know who Cullen is or haven't read their journals. You also didn't really answer my questions.

Your questions were addressed to "bullying apologists" ... my answer was that I am not a bullying apologist.

Quote :

I'd ask how any of the bullying apologists explain e. g. Dylan's journal being mostly about not having a girlfriend, not bullying, or what "tier" and "wilder wein" and "natural selection" which seem to reference being an animal have to do with bullying per se, or why when Eric rather explicitly said he was about to explain why he was doing it, he didn't mention bullying so much as destruction.

You are correct that Dylan's journal does not address bullying to any great degree.

Eric was a weak little incel who wanted to feel like a big strong muthafucka. He felt demoralized and humiliated by a world that constantly reinforced his deep-seated feelings of masculine inadequacy. To compensate, he went to great lengths to create a badass persona for himself in the privacy of his journal. But even here, his insecurity seeped in - he sabotaged his efforts by lapsing into occasional bouts of whining. (As Westword reporter Alan Prendergast noted, Eric's journal ended "not with the howl of the wolf-god, but the whine of the pathetic geek who can't land a prom date.")

When I watch the "Eric in Columbine" video, I am struck by his sheepish body language when he encounters the bigger jocks in the hallway, but I am also struck by his angry reactions when he is insulted by the girls in the cafeteria. With apologies to the fangirls, he really does come across as something of a pathetic little dweeb.

If you require further elaboration, please let me know.

A bullying apologist would presumably mean one who defends bullying. I guess you're saying you don't see it as a motive, just that it happened, or was a 'contributing factor' or whatever. Fair enough, but then that doesn't seem to me all that different from Cullen. Cullen might be weird and say Dylan was perfect and Eric was a ladies man and there was no bullying, but his man contention was that 'revenge for bullying' wasn't the motive.

That's not exactly original to him, but that seems to be the reason for the majority of the ire against him. The other problems seem to me to be narrative building based on the facts as he sees them, for which it's hard to fault him for. E. g. Fuselier is why Eric is the psychopathic mastermind and Dylan the depressed follower, and just about everyone buys into the "plan B" stuff.

And all that provides some interesting insight with which I find myself agreeing, but I note I wasn't just asking rhetorically. If there's a way to interpret, e. g. "tier", 'wilder wein', and 'natural selection' with bullying, then I'm interested in it.  I could see one with natural selection, being the bottom of the food chain and striking back to put yourself on top or something, but the first two I think show it's more about the wish to be a wild animal outside of society, not just in a society free of bullies.

And yeah in the Eric in Columbine video there's something about the contrast of the KMFDM concert T being tucked into his socks.

Am I the only one who went to a high school where jocks gave each other just as much hell, if not more so, as the other kids? There was this huge football player in my spanish class who would be teased mercilessly cause he never put on deodorant after practice and they called him stinky and refused to sit near him. And it always seemed like it was jocks getting into fights with other jocks.

HanShotFirst wrote:

Am I the only one who went to a high school where jocks gave each other just as much hell, if not more so, as the other kids? There was this huge football player in my spanish class who would be teased mercilessly cause he never put on deodorant after practice and they called him stinky and refused to sit near him. And it always seemed like it was jocks getting into fights with other jocks.

"Jocks" in the journal and in the library seem the preoccupation of Dylan, who was usually sad over feeling rejected by women. So, I think it's quite possible jocks did tease each other as well, and that this wasn't about teasing, but about not having their status, and merely as a result of that, they probably got teased. I don't have a better way of articulating it than to say that is a symptom not the disease. They probably were called faggots and resented it, but that was probably because they were the incels. Caring about the teasing seems to miss the point, in my opinion.  Like banning starving but not changing agricultural/food distribution and policy. The cart before the horse.

Quote :

A bullying apologist would presumably mean one who defends bullying.

There are people who are pro-bullying, or at least anti-anti-bullying. They think it makes kids tougher.

Quote :

I guess you're saying you don't see it as a motive, just that it happened, or was a 'contributing factor' or whatever. Fair enough, but then that doesn't seem to me all that different from Cullen. Cullen might be weird and say Dylan was perfect and Eric was a ladies man and there was no bullying, but his man contention was that 'revenge for bullying' wasn't the motive.

Cullen says that bullying was a non-factor. I rate it as an important factor - a secondary one, but an important one. But, no, I don't think that the kids were trying to take revenge on the kids who were mean to them. They were trying to demonstrate their superiority over a system that marginalized them.

Quote :

That's not exactly original to him, but that seems to be the reason for the majority of the ire against him. The other problems seem to me to be narrative building based on the facts as he sees them, for which it's hard to fault him for. E. g. Fuselier is why Eric is the psychopathic mastermind and Dylan the depressed follower, and just about everyone buys into the "plan B" stuff.

The psychopath/depressive psychobabble doesn't interest me. Part of me wants to believe that both boys could have been saved. Maybe one or both could have been. We'll never know.

No, what really pisses me off is that Cullen arrogantly states that "Eric Harris got lots and lots of chicks" and that "he outscored the football team." There is *zero* evidence to support these claims. They make a total mockery of Eric's psychological makeup.

As I've said, I identify with Eric more than with Dylan. I get pissed off when people try to portray Eric as an evil robot who was doomed by biology to a bad end. I also get angry when people make excuses for Dylan.

Cullen admits that he identifies with Dylan, but he doesn't admit that his bias might affect his judgment. I freely admit that my bias has an impact on my conclusions. If I didn't see so much of myself in Eric, I might be inclined to say, "Oh, yeah, that little fucker was a total psycho. Screw him." But I'm not.

I see some of myself in Dylan, as well, but not nearly as much.

There is always room for interpretation. I will give up at least some ground on almost any argument - there's simply too much that we don't know and can't know. But I will go to my grave proclaiming that Eric Harris was a virgin incel. He had much more in common with Elliot Rodger than he would have cared to admit.

Quote :

And all that provides some interesting insight with which I find myself agreeing, but I note I wasn't just asking rhetorically. If there's a way to interpret, e. g. "tier", 'wilder wein', and 'natural selection' with bullying, then I'm interested in it.  I could see one with natural selection, being the bottom of the food chain and striking back to put yourself on top or something, but the first two I think show it's more about the wish to be a wild animal outside of society, not just in a society free of bullies.

Yes, I agree. Neither boy could abide the thought of spending the next fifty, sixty, seventy years living in human society - getting a job, working your ass off year after year after year to pay the mortgage and the car payments and the insurance and the dental bills and everything else, going through the motions of responsible adult living, retiring, and then quietly fading away. Living was for zombies.

Quote :

And yeah in the Eric in Columbine video there's something about the contrast of the KMFDM concert T being tucked into his socks.

Yep.

HanShotFirst wrote:

Am I the only one who went to a high school where jocks gave each other just as much hell, if not more so, as the other kids? There was this huge football player in my spanish class who would be teased mercilessly cause he never put on deodorant after practice and they called him stinky and refused to sit near him. And it always seemed like it was jocks getting into fights with other jocks.

Landon Jones, a star player on the state-championship Columbine football team, said that Rocky Hoffschneider used to spit in his helmet:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Where I went to school the jocks did run in their own group but the only ones that really went out of their way to mess with the outcast kids were the jocks that got shat on by other jocks, and were just taking out their own insecurities and issues against someone they viewed as an easy punching bag.

LPorter101 wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

Am I the only one who went to a high school where jocks gave each other just as much hell, if not more so, as the other kids? There was this huge football player in my spanish class who would be teased mercilessly cause he never put on deodorant after practice and they called him stinky and refused to sit near him. And it always seemed like it was jocks getting into fights with other jocks.

Landon Jones, a star player on the state-championship Columbine football team, said that Rocky Hoffschneider used to spit in his helmet:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

They can be pretty f***ed up with eachother. I remember our basketball team went to the finals across state and had to stay over night in a hotel. There was this really rich kinda snobby player on the team and they took turns ejaculating in a cup then broke into his overnight bag, got his toothbrush, and swirled it around in the cup.

LPorter101 wrote:

There are people who are pro-bullying, or at least anti-anti-bullying. They think it makes kids tougher.

Yeah I know, but I took it you weren't, or even if you were that wasn't what you meant. Probably annoyingly pedantic, but, just FYI: An x apologist means a defender of x. Think Socrates' "Apology" being his defense speech.

Quote :

Cullen says that bullying was a non-factor. I rate it as an important factor - a secondary one, but an important one. But, no, I don't think that the kids were trying to take revenge on the kids who were mean to them. They were trying to demonstrate their superiority over a system that marginalized them.

Cullen says some weird stuff for sure, and has several narratives where he seems to just be making it up. But, despite those who still go along with initial reports, that revenge for bullying was not the motive, seems to be his main point, and on this point we seem to all agree. I agree with you that e. g. "doom rules" is a better debunking of myths in a shorter space, and "demonstrate their superiority over a system that marginalized them" is a good way to put it.

Quote :

The psychopath/depressive psychobabble doesn't interest me. Part of me wants to believe that both boys could have been saved. Maybe one or both could have been. We'll never know.

No, what really pisses me off is that Cullen arrogantly states that "Eric Harris got lots and lots of chicks" and that "he outscored the football team." There is *zero* evidence to support these claims. They make a total mockery of Eric's psychological makeup.

As I've said, I identify with Eric more than with Dylan. I get pissed off when people try to portray Eric as an evil robot who was doomed by biology to a bad end. I also get angry when people make excuses for Dylan.

Cullen admits that he identifies with Dylan, but he doesn't admit that his bias might affect his judgment. I freely admit that my bias has an impact on my conclusions. If I didn't see so much of myself in Eric, I might be inclined to say, "Oh, yeah, that little fucker was a total psycho. Screw him." But I'm not.

I see some of myself in Dylan, as well, but not nearly as much.

There is always room for interpretation. I will give up at least some ground on almost any argument - there's simply too much that we don't know and can't know. But I will go to my grave proclaiming that Eric Harris was a virgin incel. He had much more in common with Elliot Rodger than he would have cared to admit.

We mostly agree here. I am also open to interpretations when it comes to the motive and activities pre-massacre, and at least some of the massacre itself, though I am stubborn that screaming in the library that the bombs were going to kill everyone means they did not start shooting because they had given up on the bombs.

My point was that saying Eric scored so much is deduced a priori from the armchair from the fact of Fuselier's 'psychopath' profile, I think, and so it's not entirely Cullen's fault. Also I don't know about "saved", but I agree that it's 'psychobabble' and see them as rational actors. If I thought they were mentally ill, I would think they should use the insanity defense. And if they had never killed anyone, I doubt they would ever be diagnosed mentally ill. Mentally ill and getting back at bullies both seem like coping with the tragedy/crime to me. Also agree that Rodger is the (or at least, an) archetype for Columbine.

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

Am I the only one who went to a high school where jocks gave each other just as much hell, if not more so, as the other kids? There was this huge football player in my spanish class who would be teased mercilessly cause he never put on deodorant after practice and they called him stinky and refused to sit near him. And it always seemed like it was jocks getting into fights with other jocks.

"Jocks" in the journal and in the library seem the preoccupation of Dylan, who was usually sad over feeling rejected by women. So, I think it's quite possible jocks did tease each other as well, and that this wasn't about teasing, but about not having their status, and merely as a result of that, they probably got teased. I don't have a better way of articulating it than to say that is a symptom not the disease. They probably were called faggots and resented it, but that was probably because they were the incels. Caring about the teasing seems to miss the point, in my opinion.  Like banning starving but not changing agricultural/food distribution and policy. The cart before the horse.

The bigger question is why the women didn't like the boys and felt uncomfortable around them? We never got that answer. Is it because they looked different and "weird"? And what do people exactly mean by "incel" maybe a lot of guys choose not to approach women out of fear of feeling uncomfortable.

bradt93 wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

Am I the only one who went to a high school where jocks gave each other just as much hell, if not more so, as the other kids? There was this huge football player in my spanish class who would be teased mercilessly cause he never put on deodorant after practice and they called him stinky and refused to sit near him. And it always seemed like it was jocks getting into fights with other jocks.

"Jocks" in the journal and in the library seem the preoccupation of Dylan, who was usually sad over feeling rejected by women. So, I think it's quite possible jocks did tease each other as well, and that this wasn't about teasing, but about not having their status, and merely as a result of that, they probably got teased. I don't have a better way of articulating it than to say that is a symptom not the disease. They probably were called faggots and resented it, but that was probably because they were the incels. Caring about the teasing seems to miss the point, in my opinion.  Like banning starving but not changing agricultural/food distribution and policy. The cart before the horse.

The bigger question is why the women didn't like the boys and felt uncomfortable around them? We never got that answer. Is it because they looked different and "weird"? And what do people exactly mean by "incel" maybe a lot of guys choose not to approach women out of fear of feeling uncomfortable.

Yeah, the bigger question is why they were low-status and so were bullied (and without gfs) in the first place. And not approaching women out of fear is as 'involuntary celibacy" as it gets. Elliott Rodger and Dylan's journal is what we mean by incel.

cakeman wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

Am I the only one who went to a high school where jocks gave each other just as much hell, if not more so, as the other kids? There was this huge football player in my spanish class who would be teased mercilessly cause he never put on deodorant after practice and they called him stinky and refused to sit near him. And it always seemed like it was jocks getting into fights with other jocks.

"Jocks" in the journal and in the library seem the preoccupation of Dylan, who was usually sad over feeling rejected by women. So, I think it's quite possible jocks did tease each other as well, and that this wasn't about teasing, but about not having their status, and merely as a result of that, they probably got teased. I don't have a better way of articulating it than to say that is a symptom not the disease. They probably were called faggots and resented it, but that was probably because they were the incels. Caring about the teasing seems to miss the point, in my opinion.  Like banning starving but not changing agricultural/food distribution and policy. The cart before the horse.

The bigger question is why the women didn't like the boys and felt uncomfortable around them? We never got that answer. Is it because they looked different and "weird"? And what do people exactly mean by "incel" maybe a lot of guys choose not to approach women out of fear of feeling uncomfortable.

Yeah, the bigger question is why they were low-status and so were bullied (and without gfs) in the first place. And not approaching women out of fear is as 'involuntary celibacy" as it gets. Elliott Rodger and Dylan's journal is what we mean by incel.

Didn't they both of them date a few girls. but they didn't last?

I always heard Columbine was a stuck up school, but the Eric and Dylan did not come from poor families themselves, so I don't get it. Noone should judge anyone by income btw.