Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh

Just makes you go HMMM. The rabbit hole is endless on this one.

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Timothy McVeigh, who referred to children killed in the Oklahoma City bombing as "collateral damage, wrote to a national animal rights group saying he understands their cause, even though he doesn't fully share their opinion.
The Oklahoma City bomber also noted in the letter sent to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals: "I cannot sustain a prolonged intellectual debate on the subject as my time is short, but I suggest hitting Ted Kaczynski up for his opinions on the subject.

McVeigh went on to provide the Colorado prison address for Kaczynski, the Unabomber. The two were held in the same federal maximum-security prison in Florence, Colo., before McVeigh was moved to the federal death row.

McVeigh's letter was in response to a March request by PETA that his final meals at the U.S. Penitentiary in Terre Haute be meatless. The request caught the attention of the media, and apparently McVeigh, who's scheduled to die May 16.

In a letter to Bruce Friedrich, PETA's vegan campaign coordinator, McVeigh wrote: "Truth is, I understand your cause I've seen slaughterhouses myself but I still believe in reasonable taking and eating of game (as an outdoorsman and hunter.)

McVeigh went on to raise questions about where people in "the 'veg' movement draw the line. "Where do those who oppose suffering stand? McVeigh wrote. (Ever see a fish struggling out of water?) What about grubs/worms/etc.?

The man responsible for killing 168 people by bombing the Oklahoma City federal building even noted that plants are alive and respond to stimuli, just as an animal would respond to pain.

McVeigh called on American Indian beliefs of the circle of life to sum up his opinions: "To me, the answer is as the Indians believed: respect for the life you take to sustain yourself, but come to terms with your place in the 'food chain.'

McVeigh made no mention in the letter that he plans to stop eating meat. Friedrich said Monday that he wasn't exactly sure how PETA feels about having McVeigh on their side.

"I don't know what it means for the vegan movement if Timothy McVeigh, in his final days, adopts a vegan diet, he said. "But I think it would be very positive for his soul.









I always thought Tim's last meal choice of two pints mint chocolate chip ice cream was kinda funny, not the most outlandish last meal request by any means. But it kinda just fits Tim somehow.  

The first article was Tim responding to PETA's request that he go VEGAN. Actually his response to them was dead on in my opinion.

The two videos are his lawyers talking about how he was doing during his last meal, etc. The first one has a priest who befrinded Tim and they wrote letters back and forth. Father Ron Ashmore from St. Margaret Mary's Church, said that he believed Tim would make it to Heaven.

Ewww chocolate chip mint.

Totally with Eric on that cookie dough. I could knock out a party sized tub of that.

W.A.R. wrote:

Ewww chocolate chip mint.

Totally with Eric on that cookie dough. I could knock out a party sized tub of that.

I like mint chocolate chip! Cookie dough is good to.  I have a very serious addiction to chocolate in general so almost anything involving chocolate is good.

I’ve always partial to cookies and cream

The most revolting is the damn peppermint schnapps from prom

Screamingophelia wrote:

I’ve always partial to cookies and cream

The most revolting is the damn peppermint schnapps from prom

OH GOD! Schnapps anything brings back horrid horrid memories!

Im not a mint in things other than toothpaste/gum kinda person.

I raged when someone ate all the samoas and left the shitty thin mints.

W.A.R. wrote:

Im not a mint in things other than toothpaste/gum kinda person.

I raged when someone ate all the samoas and left the shitty thin mints.

BAHAHA!  

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I’ve always partial to cookies and cream

The most revolting is the damn peppermint schnapps from prom

OH GOD! Schnapps anything brings back horrid horrid memories!

Yea, that and aftershock ugh. Jager too... my adult brain when I read Erics stuff and he’s like Outback And Aftershock yay...I think you have no taste Eric... that’s gross then I remember he was 17 ...

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I’ve always partial to cookies and cream

The most revolting is the damn peppermint schnapps from prom

OH GOD! Schnapps anything brings back horrid horrid memories!

Yea, that and aftershock ugh. Jager too... my adult brain when I read Erics stuff and he’s like Outback And Aftershock yay...I think you have no taste Eric... that’s gross then I remember he was 17 ...

I also have very bad flash backs of a certain weekend and Jungle Juice.

I don't even drink anymore due to Burnett's Sour Apple Vodka.

Im disgusted by the mere sight of Burnett's bottle.

W.A.R. wrote:

I don't even drink anymore due to Burnett's Sour Apple Vodka.

Im disgusted by the mere sight of Burnett's bottle.

The only thing that can literally make me start dry heaving just by sight or smell is Captain Morgan Vanilla!

My lack of taste would be that i love Hpnotiq. I feel too embarrassed to buy it now

With no judgements though i'd drink it straight from the bottle and party like its 2004

W.A.R. wrote:

My lack of taste would be that i love Hpnotiq. I feel too embarrassed to buy it now

With no judgements though i'd drink it straight from the bottle and party like its 2004

LOL!     But it was such a pretty color! Not so much coming back up though!

Also all this talk of drinking, made me recall that Tim McVeigh was a very straight laced guy when it came to things like that.

He didn't really smoke, hardly drank, and only experimented with a few drugs(mainly crystal meth, and marijuana)briefly in all his wanderings over the US.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Also all this talk of drinking, made me recall that Tim McVeigh was a very straight laced guy when it came to things like that.

He didn't really smoke, hardly drank, and only experimented with a few drugs(mainly crystal meth, and marijuana)briefly in all his wanderings over the US.

Interesting! I find a lot of type A and focused personalities don’t like to feel out of control and drugs and alcohol can do that.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Also all this talk of drinking, made me recall that Tim McVeigh was a very straight laced guy when it came to things like that.

He didn't really smoke, hardly drank, and only experimented with a few drugs(mainly crystal meth, and marijuana)briefly in all his wanderings over the US.

Interesting! I find a lot of type A and focused personalities don’t like to feel out of control and drugs and alcohol can do that.

True! He once talked about using the meth in some article or book I have read(cant remember which at the moment) and basically said it made him remember things that he had forgotten, helped him get hyper focused, etc. Then the next few times he used it, it didn't have the same effect so he just stopped.

Crystal meth is highly addictive, the fact McVeigh tried it a few times and didn't get hooked is amazing on its own.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Also all this talk of drinking, made me recall that Tim McVeigh was a very straight laced guy when it came to things like that.

He didn't really smoke, hardly drank, and only experimented with a few drugs(mainly crystal meth, and marijuana)briefly in all his wanderings over the US.

Interesting! I find a lot of type A and focused personalities don’t like to feel out of control and drugs and alcohol can do that.

True! He once talked about using the meth in some article or book I have read(cant remember which at the moment) and basically said it made him remember things that he had forgotten, helped him get hyper focused, etc. Then the next few times he used it,  it didn't have the same effect so he just stopped.  

Crystal meth is highly addictive, the fact McVeigh tried it a few times and didn't get hooked is amazing on its own.

Maybe it's just me but I feel as though McVeigh deciding not to regularly abuse substances might have been an effort on his part to appear as normal as possible to the American populace once the government caught up to him.

Neah wrote:

Wow, some people are really motivated! And she's not even American.

The made me laugh.

He’s a interesting person.

I get a weird sense he and Eric would have gotten along

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

Wow, some people are really motivated! And she's not even American.

The made me laugh.

He’s a interesting person.

I get a weird sense he and Eric would have gotten along

Eric did have a fondness for McVeigh, to the point that I think Eric got the idea to try and blow up the school from the Oklahoma City Bombing. I'm actually a bit surprised that McVeigh never said anything about the Columbine shootings.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

Wow, some people are really motivated! And she's not even American.

The made me laugh.

He’s a interesting person.

I get a weird sense he and Eric would have gotten along

Eric did have a fondness for McVeigh, to the point that I think Eric got the idea to try and blow up the school from the Oklahoma City Bombing. I'm actually a bit surprised that McVeigh never said anything about the Columbine shootings.

That is an excellent point. I didn’t think about that for the moment. But you’re right the 19th was at the very least a talked about day. If not the original one.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

Wow, some people are really motivated! And she's not even American.

The made me laugh.

He’s a interesting person.

I get a weird sense he and Eric would have gotten along

Eric did have a fondness for McVeigh, to the point that I think Eric got the idea to try and blow up the school from the Oklahoma City Bombing. I'm actually a bit surprised that McVeigh never said anything about the Columbine shootings.

If he really did the parallel between the shooting and his bombing, he was probably confused that some people could be inspired by what he did to do a non-political, non-ideological attacks. How is it in prison, are you allowed to release a statement, or could he be prevented from saying anything about Columbine to the public?

Do we know if Eric had a fondness for McVeigh only because of the size of the bombing, or was it also because he agreed with him on some ideological points? Because Eric was against all forms of government, so probably against the fed, but I don't even think the state level was ok for him. And anyway, his political view wasn't probably developed enough at the time of the shooting.

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's just me but I feel as though McVeigh deciding not to regularly abuse substances might have been an effort on his part to appear as normal as possible to the American populace once the government caught up to him.

Tim seemed like a very smart, practical thinking type of guy. If something didn't benefit or aid him then he would stop messing with it. He even researched the effects of these drugs before he ever did them.

So I'm more inclined to believe the drugs just didn't keep having the same effect that McVeigh wanted, which was the hyper awareness, what he considered clearer thinking, better focus, etc. So he stopped messing around with it.

Poor guy must have been scared shitless not knowing if the FBI suspected he was involved or not.

Also I agree with his last comment. There is SO much more to the case that has never been uncovered.

Here are two audio recording of the OK bomb blast. The first was from a Water Resources Board meeting that morning.

The second was from somewhere in the building also, although I haven't found where or what division or part of the building it was from. The second audio clip seems to be farther away from the blast then the first.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's just me but I feel as though McVeigh deciding not to regularly abuse substances might have been an effort on his part to appear as normal as possible to the American populace once the government caught up to him.

Tim seemed like a very smart, practical thinking type of guy. If something didn't benefit or aid him then he would stop messing with it. He even researched the effects of these drugs before he ever did them.

So I'm more inclined to believe the drugs just didn't keep having the same effect that McVeigh wanted, which was the hyper awareness, what he considered clearer thinking, better focus, etc. So he stopped messing around with it.

Well the thing is that I'm pretty sure there are some drugs out there that produce the kind of effects McVeigh was looking for, and would do a better job than crystal meth. Though maybe he simply didn't have any access to them.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's just me but I feel as though McVeigh deciding not to regularly abuse substances might have been an effort on his part to appear as normal as possible to the American populace once the government caught up to him.

Tim seemed like a very smart, practical thinking type of guy. If something didn't benefit or aid him then he would stop messing with it. He even researched the effects of these drugs before he ever did them.

So I'm more inclined to believe the drugs just didn't keep having the same effect that McVeigh wanted, which was the hyper awareness, what he considered clearer thinking, better focus, etc. So he stopped messing around with it.

Well the thing is that I'm pretty sure there are some drugs out there that produce the kind of effects McVeigh was looking for, and would do a better job than crystal meth. Though maybe he simply didn't have any access to them.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  One would assume that the circles in which McVeigh traveled, and the people he was in frequent contact with, etc. probably had access to just about any drug coming or going at the time. Apparently McVeigh just wasn't into drugs.

He actually talked about it in some article or book(I have read way to much on this case and can't remember which one) saying that it was one of the more outlandish assumptions about him. That people thought he was some sort of drug fiend, when he had only tried drugs a few times.

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"Hey, Gorgeous.
Poof goes your head, I know. I can take a hint, but this is my address anyway. If you ever need anything, let me know. (1) someone killed, blown up, etc. (2) a shoulder. (3) refuge. (4) fertilization from good stock when that clock starts ticking. I’ll always listen. Don’t hesitate to drop me a line. People may change superficially but not underneath. Remember that. Take care and merry Christmas.

Tim.

Tim McVeigh, 1711 Stockton Hill Road, No. 206, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.

P.S. It took class character for your boss to leave his office so we could talk. Very tactful. Good man."



Andrea Peters - Direct
Q.  That's a very short letter, Ms. Peters.  If you would, just
read that into evidence.
A.  Starting from the beginning?
Q.  Yes.
A.  Hey, Gorgeous.  Poof goes your head, I know.  I can take a
hint, but this is my address anyway.  If you ever need
anything, let me know.  (1) someone killed, blown up, etc.  (2)
a shoulder.  (3) refuge.  (4) fertilization from good stock
when that clock starts ticking.  I'll always listen.  Don't
hesitate to drop me a line.  People may change superficially
but not underneath.  Remember that.  Take care and merry
Christmas.  Tim.  Tim McVeigh, 1711 Stockton Hill Road, No.
206, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.  P.S. It took class character for
your boss to leave his office so we could talk.  Very tactful.
Good man."


After weeks of digging, I finally found it! 

This is the letter Tim wrote to a co-worker he was interested in named Andrea Peters in Dec. of 1994. He had worked with her when he was a security guard at Burns Security.  Andrea was a receptionist.

The link is to her testimony during McVeigh's trial, where she had to read the letter to the court. I'm still scrambling to find an actual copy of the letter, if one exists somewhere out there. Will update this if I ever come across it.

I will say one thing, Timmy was smooth AF!  But the "fertilization from good stock when that clock starts ticking" still has me fucking rolling.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

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"Hey, Gorgeous.
Poof goes your head, I know. I can take a hint, but this is my address anyway. If you ever need anything, let me know. (1) someone killed, blown up, etc. (2) a shoulder. (3) refuge. (4) fertilization from good stock when that clock starts ticking. I’ll always listen. Don’t hesitate to drop me a line. People may change superficially but not underneath. Remember that. Take care and merry Christmas.

Tim.

Tim McVeigh, 1711 Stockton Hill Road, No. 206, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.

P.S. It took class character for your boss to leave his office so we could talk. Very tactful. Good man."



Andrea Peters - Direct
Q.  That's a very short letter, Ms. Peters.  If you would, just
read that into evidence.
A.  Starting from the beginning?
Q.  Yes.
A.  Hey, Gorgeous.  Poof goes your head, I know.  I can take a
hint, but this is my address anyway.  If you ever need
anything, let me know.  (1) someone killed, blown up, etc.  (2)
a shoulder.  (3) refuge.  (4) fertilization from good stock
when that clock starts ticking.  I'll always listen.  Don't
hesitate to drop me a line.  People may change superficially
but not underneath.  Remember that.  Take care and merry
Christmas.  Tim.  Tim McVeigh, 1711 Stockton Hill Road, No.
206, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.  P.S. It took class character for
your boss to leave his office so we could talk.  Very tactful.
Good man."


After weeks of digging, I finally found it! 

This is the letter Tim wrote to a co-worker he was interested in named Andrea Peters in Dec. of 1994. He had worked with her when he was a security guard at Burns Security.  Andrea was a receptionist.

The link is to her testimony during McVeigh's trial, where she had to read the letter to the court. I'm still scrambling to find an actual copy of the letter, if one exists somewhere out there. Will update this if I ever come across it.

I will say one thing, Timmy was smooth AF!  But the "fertilization from good stock when that clock starts ticking" still has me fucking rolling.

LOL. When I first read it I thought "why does he mention bomb related things twice in his letter?" then I realized what he meant... yea I kind of love that. haha.


Tim got chicks, lots of chicks..... but he did for realsies.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

He actually talked about it in some article or book(I have read way to much on this case and can't remember which one) saying that it was one of the more outlandish assumptions about him. That people thought he was some sort of drug fiend, when he had only tried drugs a few times.

I had no idea most people assumed that. Before you told me I always assumed Tim was straight edge.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

He actually talked about it in some article or book(I have read way to much on this case and can't remember which one) saying that it was one of the more outlandish assumptions about him. That people thought he was some sort of drug fiend, when he had only tried drugs a few times.

I had no idea most people assumed that. Before you told me I always assumed Tim was straight edge.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Tim's family, close friends, military buddies, etc. knew Tim was a very straight laced guy. But the way the media portrayed him after the attack made the public, and people that didn't know him personally think he was a druggie of sorts. Which just wasn't true.

McVeigh ALWAYS had a love/hate relationship with the media.

Screamingophelia wrote:

LOL. When I first read it I thought "why does he mention bomb related things twice in his letter?" then I realized what he meant... yea I kind of love that. haha.


Tim got chicks, lots of chicks..... but he did for realsies.

He definitely had potential.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

LOL. When I first read it I thought "why does he mention bomb related things twice in his letter?" then I realized what he meant... yea I kind of love that. haha.


Tim got chicks, lots of chicks..... but he did for realsies.

He definitely had potential.

He sure did!

Thank you for posting this thread, I’m learning a lot it’s interesting!!

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Neah wrote:

I wonder if when they saw him laughing, they still found him scaring or impressive, especially if they often saw him.

From everything I have read on Tim McVeigh he was just a funny type guy in general, and liked playing around. It is well documented that he was always cracking jokes with his lawyers, etc.  I doubt they were afraid of him.

I want to pepper my god cousin so bad again...ask are you sure you remember NOTHING about him??

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Neah wrote:

I wonder if when they saw him laughing, they still found him scaring or impressive, especially if they often saw him.

From everything I have read on Tim McVeigh he was just a funny type guy in general, and liked playing around. It is well documented that he was always cracking jokes with his lawyers, etc.  I doubt they were afraid of him.

I want to pepper my god cousin so bad again...ask are you sure you remember NOTHING about him??

Well if you do and he ever remembers anything, post that shit!

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Just gonna leave this here for my fellow conspiracy lovers!  

These pictures were supposedly taken by a pilot near Camp Gruber-Braggs, Oklahoma in early April of 1995. So why was this Ryder truck parked at a secluded Army base days before the Murrah Building was attacked?      

WHO HAS KNOWN heights and depths shall not again
Know peace -- not as the calm heart knows
Low, ivied walls; a garden close;
And though he tread the humble ways of men
He shall not speak the common tongue again.

Who has known heights shall bear forevermore
An incommunicable thing
That hurts his heart, as if a wing
Beat at the portal, challenging;
And yet -- lured by the gleam his vision wore --
Who once has trodden stars seeks peace no more.

By Mary Brent Whitside 1936




This a poem that Tim had his lawyers find a copy of for him. He also later gave it to Lou Michel and Dan Herbeck (the co-authors of his official biography- American Terrorist) saying that it described his dilemma.  

Once again I will say Tim had fantastic taste in poetry.

This doc is kinda long, but has damn good info in it.

Thank you! This is my favorite Non-Columbine related thread

Tim McVeigh is very interesting..

Screamingophelia wrote:

Thank you! This is my favorite Non-Columbine related thread

Tim McVeigh is very interesting..

Indeed he was.

Also just the whole case is interesting to say the least. SO many twists and turns, suspected cover-ups, etc. It's the kind of case that could make a die hard conspiracy theorist have wet dreams!  

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Thank you! This is my favorite Non-Columbine related thread

Tim McVeigh is very interesting..

Indeed he was.

Also just the whole case is interesting to say the least. SO many twists and turns, suspected cover-ups, etc. It's the kind of case that could make a die hard conspiracy theorist have wet dreams!  

Yes! It is so interesting to revisit it at this age. I was 13 when it happened. I never really looked into it or any true crime, it was all what the media said and what my family said "oh he was just a terrorist" I remember a story that he refused to look at any of the victims pictures... but again that was a long time ago so I could be misremembering.

I find this and Columbine to be very different for me as I get older. Columbine when I was 17 and I certainly felt differently then. I mean some things are still the same but I have a clearer head.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Thank you! This is my favorite Non-Columbine related thread

Tim McVeigh is very interesting..

Indeed he was.

Also just the whole case is interesting to say the least. SO many twists and turns, suspected cover-ups, etc. It's the kind of case that could make a die hard conspiracy theorist have wet dreams!  

I remember a story that he refused to look at any of the victims pictures... but again that was a long time ago so I could be misremembering.

You are remembering correct.

McVeigh always had issues with looking at the pictures or even talking about the victims in depth. His lawyers several times stated that his whole demeanor would change, and likened it to a flip of a switch. Like he would just turn off his emotions whenever he had to talk about those killed in the bombing, especially the children.

This is why I think the times he did talk about the victims came off as cold hearted, and that he had no remorse, felt no guilt, etc. Simply because he tried to shut himself down from having any emotional reaction/response to it.

McVeigh was a very complex individual. This is why I have dived back into the "Rabbit Hole" so much with this one. Also even today, shit is still being dig up here and there that makes you question every damn thing you have ever heard about the case.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Thank you! This is my favorite Non-Columbine related thread

Tim McVeigh is very interesting..

Indeed he was.

Also just the whole case is interesting to say the least. SO many twists and turns, suspected cover-ups, etc. It's the kind of case that could make a die hard conspiracy theorist have wet dreams!  

I remember a story that he refused to look at any of the victims pictures... but again that was a long time ago so I could be misremembering.

You are remembering correct.

McVeigh always had issues with looking at the pictures or even talking about the victims in depth. His lawyers several times stated that his whole demeanor would change, and likened it to a flip of a switch. Like he would just turn off his emotions whenever he had to talk about those killed in the bombing, especially the children.

This is why I think the times he did talk about the victims came off as cold hearted, and that he had no remorse, felt no guilt, etc. Simply because he tried to shut himself down from having any emotional reaction/response to it.

McVeigh was a very complex individual. This is why I have dived back into the "Rabbit Hole" so much with this one. Also even today, shit is still being dig up here and there that makes you question every damn thing you have ever heard about the case.

I imagine, and I am speculating that comes from his military training too. In his mind it was something he had to do and yes innocent people were going to die but in his mind they were maybe collateral damage?

Reminds me again of Eric and him saying he had to turn his emotions off and another reason he wanted to blow the school up and not just go in and start shooting.


It is interesting about the kids too because James Holmes also got upset when he heard a child died. He chose a midnight movie because he thought there wouldn't be any there.

I sometimes think even though Dylan "let people go" and seemed to not want to hear anyone cry or scream he was more at ease at watching people die, wanting to knife them where as Eric wanted to be completely disconnected. Bomb the school and shoot people at a distance.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Reminds me again of Eric and him saying he had to turn his emotions off and another reason he wanted to blow the school up and not just go in and start shooting.


It is interesting about the kids too because James Holmes also got upset when he heard a child died. He chose a midnight movie because he thought there wouldn't be any there.

I sometimes think even though Dylan "let people go" and seemed to not want to hear anyone cry or scream he was more at ease at watching people die, wanting to knife them where as Eric wanted to be completely disconnected. Bomb the school and shoot people at a distance.

I agree, I think killing is very different from making people suffering. I should read the whole journal again to check if it is true but IIRC Eric never wrote about inflecting pain in his journal. I mentioned it in another thread a few days ago (the thread about rape I think), even in the passage where he said he wanted to torture someone, it seems that he destroyed a body but without making his victim suffer, as if the victim was already dead and Eric was only being brutal to the corpse. There is no pain, only blood, guts, flesh...



As for Timothy McVeigh, the attack was an act of terrorism, he did this for his ideology so making people suffer or enjoying that people suffer or die would have dehumanized him, so it could have been negative to his message (but I don't think he liked killing anyway). Terrorists have to face a dilemma and chose a strategy after their attack. McVeigh could have kept spreading his message the best he could by showing that he felt very bad for the dead, in order to make him more human to those who were shocked by the attack. Maybe the average American would have been more supportive or at least less judgmental if they saw that he felt sorry and was aware that it was a tragedy, but unfortunately a necessarily strategy. And yet, in a way showing no regrets, just like Dylann Roof and Breivik, shows that he still thinks the attack was necessary and that the message was above a few humans lives. Being uncompromising may be important to keep the support of those who already supported you before the attack.

I read a French white-supremacist article on a blog and many people, including the author of the article, thought that Dylann Roof made the good decision by not killing himself and not showing any remorse at all, because that way he was showing that he was standing right by his convictions. They also praised Breivik for doing the same. Other white-supremacists (but they were much less numerous) thought the strategy was bad because people who slightly leaned toward far-right (but were not racist) and needed to be convinced would never accept such a cruel attack and the pity-less and cold attitude of the shooter after his arrest.

And on top of these two strategies, terrorists also have to deal with their emotions, guilt and regrets... I don't think Timothy McVeigh went beyond that. I think the only way for him was to turn off his emotions, so it was not even part of a strategy toward his message. It was only for his well-being.

My friend from my hometown (and Tim McVeigh's) just posted this and I wanted to share it. It's from Politico but I remember that time of the Bills loses... ah the 90's.

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Screamingophelia wrote:

My friend from my hometown (and Tim McVeigh's) just posted this and I wanted to share it. It's from Politico but I remember that time of the Bills loses... ah the 90's.

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Yes Timmy indeed liked the Bills.    

Although I highly doubt that his team sucking was the straw that broke the camel's back. But then again I am looking at this from a purely female perspective, and I'm not a HUGE fan of football.

The article is interesting to say the least.

It is certainly a stretch!

I have seen people in tears of happiness when their team have won the superbowl so I am not entirely sure that POV.

Screamingophelia wrote:

It is certainly a stretch!

I have seen people in tears of happiness when their team have won the superbowl so I am not entirely sure that POV.

Agreed! Men and sports can get kinda weird sometimes!

[quote="ShadowedGoddess"]

Screamingophelia wrote:

It is certainly a stretch!

I have seen people in tears of happiness when their team have won the superbowl so I am not entirely sure that POV.

Agreed! Men and sports can get kinda weird sometimes! [/quote

A friend of mine said her husband cried more at a super bowl win than when their baby was born but he denies it vehemently.

I was very young but I have to wonder with living in the area if I was in the same place as him just doing normal things with my family. The town is not huge. I know, weird. Maybe we were at the same Bills game? Stuff like that.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I imagine, and I am speculating that comes from his military training too. In his mind it was something he had to do and yes innocent people were going to die but in his mind they were maybe collateral damage?

Well he did say his actions were morally equivalent to American bombings in Iraq...

Neah wrote:

I read a French white-supremacist article on a blog and many people, including the author of the article, thought that Dylann Roof made the good decision by not killing himself and not showing any remorse at all, because that way he was showing that he was standing right by his convictions. They also praised Breivik for doing the same. Other white-supremacists (but they were much less numerous) thought the strategy was bad because people who slightly leaned toward far-right (but were not racist) and needed to be convinced would never accept such a cruel attack and the pity-less and cold attitude of the shooter after his arrest.

I know you weren't the one who wrote it but I feel compelled to respond that the masses will accept cruel and terrible moral actions so long as they are convinced that their enemies are the scum of the Earth. Nazi Germany is the prime example of this but there are plenty of others I could pick and choose from.