Dylan's mental state

I've seen it discussed on here so many times and I've been afraid to bring it up in fear that many of you would disagree or hate on me, but nonetheless here it goes: I have to question whether Dylan was indeed having second thoughts. From the 911 tape of the library he seems to be having a ball as he's killing but it feels more like he's psychicing himself out, like some people start to babble

NotYourRobot wrote:

I've seen it discussed on here so many times and I've been afraid to bring it up in fear that many of you would disagree or hate on me, but nonetheless here it goes: I have to question whether Dylan was indeed having second thoughts. From the 911 tape of the library he seems to be having a ball as he's killing but it feels more like he's psychicing himself out, like some people start to babble

In the sense you think he's almost trying to convince himself?

I mean, I get where you're coming from, and I agree to an extent, but why exactly do you think he was having second thoughts. Please elaborate.

I think both of them probably at some stages throughout the morning had second thoughts (briefly).

That's why they had the decoy bomb, left the stuff lying around at home etc - to minimalise the chances of turning back.

I expect they may have even had them when the cafeteria bombs didn't go off for a few seconds then Eric snapped out of it. "GO GO" and the first shot was fired - that's when there were no more second thoughts after that.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I think both of them probably at some stages throughout the morning had second thoughts (briefly).

That's why they had the decoy bomb, left the stuff lying around at home etc - to minimalise the chances of turning back.

I expect they may have even had them when the cafeteria bombs didn't go off for a few seconds then Eric snapped out of it. "GO GO" and the first shot was fired - that's when there were no more second thoughts after that.

It really gives me chills thinking about that spilt second when the past the point of no return.

Has it been confirmed Dylan was the person who said when they entered the library: "You're still with me right?"

Belladonna wrote:

Has it been confirmed Dylan was the person who said when they entered the library: "You're still with me right?"

only speculation, nothing official. i am not sure who said this...

I've never heard about the n"You're still with me right?" I wonder if it's true and who said it and why. I think it'd be so fascinating to be inside E&D's minds in the months before and during the shooting

Why do I feel like they might have been...perhaps nervous, or jittery, amidst the massacre. Perhaps in the beginning maybe - which almost aligns to why they couldn't kill anyone they had a conversation/interacted with

I'm not sure if anyone understands where I'm getting at

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
They killed Rachel Scott I think Dylan helped set up the lighting in her plays or something .
Dylan also wrote in his journal that NBK will be so nerve wracking, seconds will seem like minutes.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I meant anyone they interacted with on that day. Those who were "spared"

In the months leading up to it, I am sure they both probably had second thoughts. Eric had said a few different times that if things were different it may have changed/been prevented. And Dylan had also said some things hinting around that he didn't even intend on being alive much longer (that he was going to commit suicide well before 4/20). He had been talking of suicide for about 2 years prior to 1999). But once they started shooting, that was it, there was no turning back.

I do often wonder, when they seen just how much of a failure their plan was, if they thought it wasn't even worth it (Eric, in particular)? All that hard work and planning just to have their bombs fail and then Eric breaks his nose. And then once they got into the school, the only place there were any students for them to shoot were the few hiding in the Library. Yes, they took 13 lives but they had wanted to kill hundreds. They wanted to blow up the Cafeteria and have the Library above come tumbling down on top of it. They wanted to equal or outdo McVeigh. They mocked other school shooters who didn't get a high body count.

I believe Dylan was just living it up and having the time of his life. All he wanted was to finally die. I believe Eric was probably devastated at the outcome though. In those last few seconds of life, I truly believe that Eric thought to himself that it was a waste and he probably thought they'd just be considered jokes because of how terribly the whole plan failed. In my opinion, Eric did not die with any kind of satisfaction whatsoever. Like he said in the few weeks before the massacre, he relates everything he sees and hears to 'NBK'. This was the day he lived for and look at how horrible it turned out. Dylan was just counting down the minutes until he could finally die and be in the afterlife where I think he believed he'd find everlasting eternal love.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in your reply when you mention how Eric and Dylan didn't kill anyone they interacted with, I've never thought about that. You're absolutely right! Very interesting! Thank you for your post :-)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] @liqourvamp he interacted with Isaiah and he got killed? I'm confused by what your theorizing

Jenn wrote:

I believe Dylan was just living it up and having the time of his life. All he wanted was to finally die. I believe Eric was probably devastated at the outcome though. In those last few seconds of life, I truly believe that Eric thought to himself that it was a waste and he probably thought they'd just be considered jokes because of how terribly the whole plan failed.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yes, interesting to also note that Eric disclosed he was having homicidal thoughts on his mental health self-evaluation (how that admission was overlooked, I'll never know) but not suicidal ones. I also believe that Eric didn't necessarily want to die, but knew that realistically he'd have to if we wanted to go through with his murderous plan without being jailed. I recall in his writings that he did fantasize about committing mass murder then escaping to somewhere "exotic" (like "New Zeland" lol, can't even spell the name of his dream destination), but obviously that was pure fantasy.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I got this theory and learnt of it through a post on this forum which really got me thinking and agreeing - what I meant was they couldn't kill anyone they talked with that day because it started to humanize the particular person making it harder to off them instantly; Evan Todd for example. For Isaiah's case, it wasn't really a back and forth convo instead it was more of like taunting him? My point is that when they looked these people in the eye, it made E&D feel small again? if you know what I mean? what separates them from being who they've always been in school and who they were on 4/20 is simply a Gun. On that day, they wanted to be their alter ego, badass, but deep down, they were still the "nobodies".

I don't know about the theory of not trying to kill anyone they spoke to - it wasn't for lack of trying with Lance.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean

Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] they were killers but they were also children like their victims...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and bree, evan and valeen? there's a huge difference between a few exchanges and a conversation. I really never thought about this theory until I read it here and tried to analyze it. Perhaps, the ones I named were just lucky.

Jenn wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean

Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

John Tomlin. I have seen the argument that E&D didn't shoot anyone they significantly talked to but I honestly think there wasn't a true rhyme reason or algorithm to who they killed or didn't kill.

Squid wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] they were killers but they were also children like their victims...

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but I don't see how that has anything to do with what I am saying? Whether they were children or not is completely irrelevant and no excuse. They were not some little kids who picked up Daddy's gun thinking it was a toy and took it to school and shot their friends by accident. This also wasn't a couple of teenagers who were cast out, constantly picked on and picked on until one day they snapped and went on a 'moment of madness'. These were highly intelligent 17 and 18 year old young men who planned (for over a year) to blow up their high school and hoped to kill 500 - 600 of the people inside of it.

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and bree, evan and valeen?

Bree is technically the only one they didn't shoot. Evan and Valeen were both shot at and Valeen was hurt quite badly. My point is that Dylan and Eric DID shoot and kill some of the people they spoke to and some of them they didn't. That was what they PLANNED on doing. They wanted to kill who they wanted. They thought they were carrying out 'Natural Selection'. Well, carrying around a gun and picking and choosing who to kill is not NATURAL selection. There is not one thing 'Natural' about it.

At the end of the day, some people they spoke to and shot them, some people they spoke to and didn't shoot them. There is no big mystery, rhyme or reason behind who they shot or didn't shoot. It was all random. They shot whoever they felt like it and the ones they didn't feel like shooting, they didn't. It is as simple as that.

Another question that is sort of related, maybe I'm just projecting or seeing what I want to see but doesn't Eric's body language seem a bit dejected after they go down to the cafeteria to check on their failed bombs? And Dylan still seems to be in badass soldier game mode?

I think the bullying of other kids comes from the fact they were bullied themselves. A very good analogy or comparison can be a molester molesting a kid. More than likely that kid is going to end up molesting somebody himself and so on...

Just like with musicians/actors, everybody has faults. Tupac Shakur and Kurt Cobain are admired by millions but they both had faults. Tupac shot at off duty cops and sexually abused a woman in a hotel room or even if that isn't true, he still stood by and watched somebody else do it without doing anything to stop it. Kurt Cobain wasn't even that great of a guitar player and was by far one of the worst drug addicts you'll ever see.

But one thing remains constant, the message. Within that message there are millions who connect. Not necessarily connect with what went down that day but connect with who these kids were (bottom of the social ladder, lack of respect, getting picked on etc.)

For the most part when people admire them, they're not admiring what they did, they're just admiring who they were because they see themselves in them. If that makes any sense...

I've seen lots of people on here lately saying E&D were never bullied? Are you effing kidding me?? I don't doubt they bullied other kids. I'm sure they did plenty of times in their senior and junior year. Once they started the idea of NBK I'm sure they said to hell with everything and dished out their anger at times. But it's very ignorant to say they never were bullied and they were always the bully.

Squid wrote:

I've seen lots of people on here lately saying E&D were never bullied? Are you effing kidding me?? I don't doubt they bullied other kids. I'm sure they did plenty of times in their senior and junior year. Once they started the idea of NBK I'm sure they said to hell with everything and dished out their anger at times. But it's very ignorant to say they never were bullied and they were always the bully.

There are a few Cullen followers here that subscribe to the idea that they were not bullied. I don't doubt they were bullied and also bullied other kids at all.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "My point is that Dylan and Eric DID shoot and kill some of the people they spoke to and some of them they didn't. That was what they PLANNED on doing. They wanted to kill who they wanted. They thought they were carrying out 'Natural Selection'. Well, carrying around a gun and picking and choosing who to kill is not NATURAL selection. There is not one thing 'Natural' about it." Hmm, I see.

Jenn wrote:

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but I don't see how that has anything to do with what I am saying? Whether they were children or not is completely irrelevant and no excuse. They were not some little kids who picked up Daddy's gun thinking it was a toy and took it to school and shot their friends by accident. This also wasn't a couple of teenagers who were cast out, constantly picked on and picked on until one day they snapped and went on a 'moment of madness'. These were highly intelligent 17 and 18 year old young men who planned (for over a year) to blow up their high school and hoped to kill 500 - 600 of the people inside of it.

Yes! Not sure that they were "highly intelligent", though. I see a lot of people using the word "intelligent" to describe the boys, which is weird, considering they constantly contradicted themselves, especially Eric who, by his own admission, was a hypocrite (his elaboration on that was something well-thought-out along the lines of "oh fucking well"). Not to mention their god awful spelling that's almost laughable to note when reading their ramblings about how they're so "intelligent".

It didn't actually take a lot of intelligence to do what they did. It's just unusual and horrific, hence the infamy.

Jenn wrote:

They thought they were carrying out 'Natural Selection'. Well, carrying around a gun and picking and choosing who to kill is not NATURAL selection. There is not one thing 'Natural' about it.

This. So much. Again, Eric's and Dylan's stupidity rearing its ugly head.

Lizpuff wrote:

Squid wrote:

I've seen lots of people on here lately saying E&D were never bullied? Are you effing kidding me?? I don't doubt they bullied other kids. I'm sure they did plenty of times in their senior and junior year. Once they started the idea of NBK I'm sure they said to hell with everything and dished out their anger at times. But it's very ignorant to say they never were bullied and they were always the bully.

There are a few Cullen followers here that subscribe to the idea that they were not bullied.  I don't doubt they were bullied and also bullied other kids at all.  

Who? Can you quote someone?

The original post that started this thread is spot-on.

When I hear the recording of Eric and Dylan in the library I hear two kids performing for each other and trying to play a part that is increasingly slipping from their grasp.

If they were really having such a great time they wouldn't have stopped abruptly or let so many people walk.

If they have to psych themselves out and carry on for one another, wouldn't it be such a devastating irony that they didn't have the guts to tell one another not to do it that day? and if I were to name which between the two that probably didn't want it to happen deep down, it'd be Eric.

Jenn wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean

Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

astrospace92 wrote:

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I think both of them probably at some stages throughout the morning had second thoughts (briefly).

That's why they had the decoy bomb, left the stuff lying around at home etc - to minimalise the chances of turning back.

I expect they may have even had them when the cafeteria bombs didn't go off for a few seconds then Eric snapped out of it. "GO GO" and the first shot was fired - that's when there were no more second thoughts after that.

It really gives me chills thinking about that spilt second when the past the point of no return.

Same here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Once the second that very first shot was fired, it sealed both their death warrants and there was no going back.

ThoughtBox wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I think both of them probably at some stages throughout the morning had second thoughts (briefly).

That's why they had the decoy bomb, left the stuff lying around at home etc - to minimalise the chances of turning back.

I expect they may have even had them when the cafeteria bombs didn't go off for a few seconds then Eric snapped out of it. "GO GO" and the first shot was fired - that's when there were no more second thoughts after that.

It really gives me chills thinking about that spilt second when the past the point of no return.

Same here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Once the second that very first shot was fired, it sealed both their death warrants and there was no going back.

And the reality of it was… it really didn't have to be.
I guess as well, even if they did think to just stop, they were still under the assumption the bombs we going to go off ...at some point anyway…

I wonder if it Eric/Dylan had done it alone they could have turned away, like a few others have said before, I think they didn't want to "let each other down"

ThoughtBox wrote:

Jenn wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean

Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

I think sometimes we can get so wrapped up in the "WHY it happened" we can shadow/forget what IT actually was….

astrospace92 wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

Jenn wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean

Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

I think sometimes we can get so wrapped up in the "WHY it happened" we can shadow/forget what IT actually was….

Ain't that the truth!

ThoughtBox wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

Jenn wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean

Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

I think sometimes we can get so wrapped up in the "WHY it happened" we can shadow/forget what IT actually was….

Ain't that the truth!

Reading over my posts I see it… "taking the massacre out of the equation…" / "regardless of the incident…" / "imagine Columbine didn't happen and consider…"

That's all very well, Astrospace92, but we CAN'T disregard it, because that one day pales the previous 18 years of their existence into insignificance!

It's a though one, because you can't explain the massacre without analysing E & D and you can't analyse E & D without the massacre.

I'll always have sympathy and compassion for E&D no matter what people say. I know full well what they did all the pain they caused. I don't think people will truly understand where they are coming from unless you lived and experienced the same. Here's a quote:
"When this life makes you mad enough to kill
That's Rock Bottom
When you want something bad enough to steal
That's Rock Bottom
When you feel like you've had it up to here
'Cause you're mad enough to scream but you're sad enough to tear"
I've lived through depression and being suicidal since I was 15. I'm 25 now. I don't see D&E as JUST psycho mentally ill cowardly murders as most people see them as. They were nice to the people who really knew them. They let some go while they could have killed them. They did this bcos those people treated them nice like they were humans. It's this difference that makes them human. And are worthy of compassion and sympathy. And I am getting sick of all the sick hate towards them. Adios.

Quote :

They were nice to the people who really knew them.

Were they being nice when they manipulated Robyn into buying them their murder weapons?
Were they being nice when they committed the massacre, knowing full well that it would hurt everyone that knew them?

They liked Robyn. They paid for it she got it because she was 18 they weren't. They said if it wasn't her it was going to be someone else. And to leave all there friends alone bcos it's not any of their fault. I bet Robyn still likes Dylan after everything.
I'm not going to bother answering the second question. Your not grasping anything I'm trying to explain before.

Squid wrote:

They liked Robyn. They paid for it she got it because she was 18 they weren't. They said if it wasn't her it was going to be someone else. And to leave all there friends alone bcos it's not any of their fault. I bet Robyn still likes Dylan after everything.

They were absolutely aware that she would get in trouble because of this.  They didn't care because they were selfish assholes who put their own interests ahead of everyone else. Actual friends who actually have strong bonds do not do this.

Quote :

I'm not going to bother answering the second question. Your not grasping anything I'm trying to explain before.

The compassion of Eric Harris, in all its glory:

"Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room."

My sympathy for Eric and Dylan begins and ends with the fact that they were hurting inside so badly that they wanted to die.  That is it, and it is not sympathy that burns very brightly considering that there are so many people who are also hurting inside who don't resort to violence.

I sympathise for the people they could've been, not how they turned out. I'm sure it's the same for their friends and family.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "My sympathy for Eric and Dylan begins and ends with the fact that they were hurting inside so badly that they wanted to die. That is it, and it is not a sympathy that burns very brightly considering that there are so many people who are also hurting inside who don't resort to violence.”

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "I sympathise for the people they could've been, not how they turned out. I'm sure it's the same for their friends and family.”

Very well put you guys.

Squid wrote:

I'll always have sympathy and compassion for E&D no matter what people say. I know full well what they did all the pain they caused. I don't think people will truly understand where they are coming from unless you lived and experienced the same. Here's a quote:
"When this life makes you mad enough to kill
That's Rock Bottom
When you want something bad enough to steal
That's Rock Bottom
When you feel like you've had it up to here
'Cause you're mad enough to scream but you're sad enough to tear"
I've lived through depression and being suicidal since I was 15. I'm 25 now. I don't see D&E as JUST psycho mentally ill cowardly murders as most people see them as. They were nice to the people who really knew them. They let some go while they could have killed them. They did this bcos those people treated them nice like they were humans. It's this difference that makes them human. And are worthy of compassion and sympathy. And I am getting sick of all the sick hate towards them. Adios.

Squid,I thank you deeply for this post.What you said here is what has always been in my heart towards E &D and what I've tried to express.
I too, have lived through some of the things you have and experienced them for a lot of years along with feeling the same way E &D did and wanting to do the same thing they did with a close friend of mine.It took a lot to come out the other side.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] glad to hear it. Hope life is treating you much better.

ThoughtBox wrote:

Jenn wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean

Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

Thank you, guys! Refreshing to see amongst all the E&D apologists.

Squid wrote:

I'll always have sympathy and compassion for E&D no matter what people say. I know full well what they did all the pain they caused. I don't think people will truly understand where they are coming from unless you lived and experienced the same. Here's a quote:
"When this life makes you mad enough to kill
That's Rock Bottom
When you want something bad enough to steal
That's Rock Bottom
When you feel like you've had it up to here
'Cause you're mad enough to scream but you're sad enough to tear"
I've lived through depression and being suicidal since I was 15. I'm 25 now. I don't see D&E as JUST psycho mentally ill cowardly murders as most people see them as. They were nice to the people who really knew them. They let some go while they could have killed them. They did this bcos those people treated them nice like they were humans. It's this difference that makes them human. And are worthy of compassion and sympathy. And I am getting sick of all the sick hate towards them. Adios.

You speak like Eric, Dylan and yourself are the only ones who've suffered from crippling depression for years. I myself was chronically depressed and suicidal for years, funnily enough since around the age of fifteen, too.

As someone said, I will have sympathy for the people they never grew to be, but certainly not for the people they ultimately became, and depression or not, nothing justifies what they did in their final hours.

"You speak like Eric, Dylan and yourself are the only ones who've suffered from crippling depression for years."
I don't know why you think that and I don't care. Funnily enough your assumptions are wasting my time. Now goodnight.

Can you just answer this one question honestly: would you still have compassion for Eric and Dylan if the one person you love the most in the world was in that library, hiding and trembling under a desk in terror before they caught the attention of E&D because of something as simple as their skin color, were called a hateful slur, yanked at by Dylan in a likely attempt to arrange a more public execution as they fearfully pleaded "no, no no" whilst others silently looked on in horror, only to then have a shotgun slug fired by Eric (yes, fired from that same powerful shotgun you see in Rampart Range) rip through their chest, causing immense and fatal damage to them?

Can you honestly say if that happened to someone you loved that you would still have compassion for Eric and Dylan and that they had a valid point for doing that? (you mentioned you believed that Eric and Dylan had valid points for murdering their victims in another thread).

If I answered this question thoroughly I'd have to explain why I think E&D had a valid point to get across. But to keep it short, as I've said before the very few people who I love are immensely outcasts themselves. It is most likely E&D would understand them and would have been at least good acquaintances at school. My loved ones would have shown them respect and kindness before NBK and I believe E&D would have spared them. If they did so happen to die from cross fire, etc. I can make peace with that. Everyone dies one time or another. I don't think death is the ultimate karma. I don't think death is a bad thing it's a natural thing. And I don't believe in karma do to speak. Gtg now.