The small questions thread

QuestionMark wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I agree [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]...every time I look into other shooters and their stories, I can't help but think E&D appeared very normal compared to most. It's really strange. Think about Lanza or Cho and compare them to E&D. Even Elliot Rodger was bizarre and his roommate in college wrote a letter about wanting him removed. The only thing that could have stuck out to anyone prior to 4/20 was the van incident.

Well if we're going to compare shooters to see who was the most normal, then the most "normal" mass shooter is Stephen Paddock. There practically no indication that there was something wrong with him until the day of the attack.

That’s true. The only thing his girlfriend said was that he was a little more distant, but other than that I haven’t seen anything reported as a red flag.

Littlelo wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I agree [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]...every time I look into other shooters and their stories, I can't help but think E&D appeared very normal compared to most. It's really strange. Think about Lanza or Cho and compare them to E&D. Even Elliot Rodger was bizarre and his roommate in college wrote a letter about wanting him removed. The only thing that could have stuck out to anyone prior to 4/20 was the van incident.

Well if we're going to compare shooters to see who was the most normal, then the most "normal" mass shooter is Stephen Paddock. There practically no indication that there was something wrong with him until the day of the attack.

That’s true. The only thing his girlfriend said was that he was a little more distant, but other than that I haven’t seen anything reported as a red flag.

Oh, yes. Paddock wins I guess. Is it really "winning"?

Good points all around.

QuestionMark wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I agree [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]...every time I look into other shooters and their stories, I can't help but think E&D appeared very normal compared to most. It's really strange. Think about Lanza or Cho and compare them to E&D. Even Elliot Rodger was bizarre and his roommate in college wrote a letter about wanting him removed. The only thing that could have stuck out to anyone prior to 4/20 was the van incident.

Well if we're going to compare shooters to see who was the most normal, then the most "normal" mass shooter is Stephen Paddock. There practically no indication that there was something wrong with him until the day of the attack.

Paddock had a notably unusual lifestyle and personality though. I'd say that the most "normal" mass shooter that I've ever heard of was Jaylen Fryberg.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
He was on the wrestling and football teams, had friends, had at least one ex-girlfriend, was active on social media and was voted freshman homecoming prince a week before the shooting. He only seemed to start having any real trouble right before the shooting, when everything fell apart all at once. He got violent with his girlfriend the night of homecoming, prompting her to break up with him and he got into a fight with a football player after a racist remark was made, leading to him being kicked off the team.

Despite his supposed normalcy, he targeted his friends after luring them to the cafeteria via text message because he apparently didn't want to be alone in death and decided that he needed "his crew" with him on the other side. It doesn't really matter how normal someone seems, I guess.

sscc wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I agree [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]...every time I look into other shooters and their stories, I can't help but think E&D appeared very normal compared to most. It's really strange. Think about Lanza or Cho and compare them to E&D. Even Elliot Rodger was bizarre and his roommate in college wrote a letter about wanting him removed. The only thing that could have stuck out to anyone prior to 4/20 was the van incident.

Well if we're going to compare shooters to see who was the most normal, then the most "normal" mass shooter is Stephen Paddock. There practically no indication that there was something wrong with him until the day of the attack.

Paddock had a notably unusual lifestyle and personality though. I'd say that the most "normal" mass shooter that I've ever heard of was Jaylen Fryberg.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
He was on the wrestling and football teams, had friends, had at least one ex-girlfriend, was active on social media and was voted freshman homecoming prince a week before the shooting. He only seemed to start having any real trouble right before the shooting, when everything fell apart all at once. He got violent with his girlfriend the night of homecoming, prompting her to break up with him and he got into a fight with a football player after a racist remark was made, leading to him being kicked off the team.

Despite his supposed normalcy, he targeted his friends after luring them to the cafeteria via text message because he apparently didn't want to be alone in death and decided that he needed "his crew" with him on the other side. It doesn't really matter how normal someone seems, I guess.

Interesting, I’ve never heard of him. Thanks for sharing

Did the Harris's or Klebold's have any kind of saws? I assume Dylan's dad probably had quite a few because of all the work they did around the house. I was wondering where they sawed off their shotguns?

Good question about the guns. I don’t think I’ve seen that discussed before.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Did the Harris's or Klebold's have any kind of saws? I assume Dylan's dad probably had quite a few because of all the work they did around the house. I was wondering where they sawed off their shotguns?

That is a very interesting question. Depending on if they used a hand saw or a power saw. A hand saw would have taken FOREVER! Power saw would have made a fair amount of noise. So they would likely have had to do it when no one was home.

I have always imagined they did it in Erics garage because that's the only place we know of were they made alot of noise.

I have read on the lists where the rest of the barrel of the shotgun was found but I don't remember, maybe that could give a clue.

munchkinphone wrote:

I have always imagined they did it in Erics garage because that's the only place we know of were they made alot of noise.

I have read on the lists where the rest of the barrel of the shotgun was found but I don't remember, maybe that could give a clue.

I think there were reports of breaking glass and a lot of noise from the neighbors, now that I think about it. I still think there was a neighbor Eric played soccer with and I think other neighbors reported noise.

I think a lot of their stuff was kept at Eric's. There were reports of one gun, I think one of Dylan's guns was in the house for a while (that's why he left that day while cleaning... the night before prom) and a few bombs at Dylan's but most were at Eric's.

I also think it’s more likely it was done at Eric’s house. Sue even mentions that Eric didn’t spend a whole lot of time at their home, and neighbors of the Harris family noted seeing Dylan’s BMW constantly parked in the neighborhood. Just seems more likely.

The butt of Eric's gun was left on his bed.

I think Eric spent a fair amount of time at home alone without his family. If he parents went on a date like the day of Prom, then he would have enough time to do what he needed. I mean they had enough time to construct their bombs at home and get them inside without his parents noticing. Seems to make enough sense to me that he just did it when his parents were out.

Lizpuff wrote:

The butt of Eric's gun was left on his bed.

I think Eric spent a fair amount of time at home alone without his family.  If he parents went on a date like the day of Prom, then he would have enough time to do what he needed.  I mean they had enough time to construct their bombs at home and get them inside without his parents noticing.  Seems to make enough sense to me that he just did it when his parents were out.

It sounds like it was Eric's definitely.

They left Eric alone a lot. My parents NEVER did anything... someone was always home.

I still want to know where they were in the morning of.

Same here, my parents always knew what I was doing when I was in high school. I can’t imagine getting away with what they did.

If I wanted to I could have. My parents were never home. Thinking back I had a ton of opportunities to be a bad teen. Too bad I mostly sat around watching tv lol

I had the habit of asking my brother if I should do bad things and he always told me it wasn’t a good Idea so i didn’t. It’s funny my brother was the one always in trouble growing up and I was the one no one had to worry about but I had all the anger issues.

It's so weird nowadays to think that there weren't cameras outside of the school. I'm also surprised that there weren't any in the hallways. Are we completely 100% sure that there weren't any others, apart from in the commons?

milkwood wrote:

It's so weird nowadays to think that there weren't cameras outside of the school. I'm also surprised that there weren't any in the hallways. Are we completely 100% sure that there weren't any others, apart from in the commons?

I have heard rumors that there were library cameras but they were shut off. But other people have said that’s completely false.

Back then there wasn’t a ton of need for cameras everywhere especially in a place like Littleton. The area was super safe, still is.

I’m also surprised there were no cameras outside.

I’ve never really believed the rumor about library cameras.

It might just be that living in today's climate it would be highly unlikely to come across a school without more security camera presence. I was really young in '99 so I'm unaware if cameras in schools were as commonplace as they are now.

milkwood wrote:

It might just be that living in today's climate it would be highly unlikely to come across a school without more security camera presence. I was really young in '99 so I'm unaware if cameras in schools were as commonplace as they are now.

I was a senior 1999, I think they may have had cameras near the front entrance near the office like principals office but that’s it.

We didn’t have an open campus like they did though. We weren’t allowed to go outside and eat etc.

I definitely don’t think we had a smoking area

AFAIK there were no other cameras besides the commons ones.

I remember it was a huge deal when I was in high school in the 2000s when we got cameras in my school. All the kids wanted to see what they could do in front of them and get away with.

I don’t think my high school had cameras until it was remodeled when I was a freshman in the early 00s.

On a weird note, it looks eerily similar to Columbine IMO.

Columbine probably prompted a lot of schools to start installing cameras.

Lizpuff wrote:

AFAIK there were no other cameras besides the commons ones.  

I remember it was a huge deal when I was in high school in the 2000s when we got cameras in my school.  All the kids wanted to see what they could do in front of them and get away with.  

My school had cameras. BUT if you were smart enough to find the blind spots then it was like they weren't there.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Did the Harris's or Klebold's have any kind of saws? I assume Dylan's dad probably had quite a few because of all the work they did around the house. I was wondering where they sawed off their shotguns?

A witness said that she heard that Eric and "some other unidentified boys" were seen building something with band saws in Eric's garage on the Saturday of 4/17/99. (10239)
Another witness reported that he heard a power saw and observed saw horses with wood across them on the Sunday before 4/20 (the interview actually says 5/18/199 but obviously, that's not right). (10240)
The same witness reported in a different interview that he heard noises on 4/18/99 that sounded like someone "sawing wood with a circular saw, and glass breaking" and saw sawhorses with wood across them. (10250)

Apparently, the garage door was mostly closed when he was hearing the sounds and about an hour later, it was all the way open when he saw the wood on the sawhorses so maybe this is when they were actually sawing off the shotguns? That doesn't sound right though because the shotgun was already sawn off in the Rampart Range video, wasn't it? Maybe this was sawing off pipes for additional pipebombs or something else necessary for the propane bombs?

I may have overlooked it but I haven't seen anything about sounds coming from the Klebold home and it seems likely to me that the shotguns were done at Eric's house even if it was at an earlier date.

(I put this post together before the other comments on the subject and I forgot to post it so I'm mostly repeating what has already been said but I guess it supports the idea that Eric had the necessary tools in his garage and it has some source pages so I'll post it anyway for future reference. )

Not a question with a definitive answer but just for discussion sake, I wonder what Eric was referring to when he says "my parents might have made some mistakes they weren't really aware of". I tend to think he was referring to being moved around a lot, having to start over from the bottom etc, but I wonder if there's more to it than that.

Unlike Dylan, I think Eric may have left more "warning signs" not saying we *wanted* to get caught be any means, but his parents were aware of Eric's inner struggles as seen in Wayne's journal and the questionnaire from the diversion..

sscc wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Did the Harris's or Klebold's have any kind of saws? I assume Dylan's dad probably had quite a few because of all the work they did around the house. I was wondering where they sawed off their shotguns?

A witness said that she heard that Eric and "some other unidentified boys" were seen building something with band saws in Eric's garage on the Saturday of 4/17/99. (10239)
Another witness reported that he heard a power saw and observed saw horses with wood across them on the Sunday before 4/20 (the interview actually says 5/18/199 but obviously, that's not right). (10240)
The same witness reported in a different interview that he heard noises on 4/18/99 that sounded like someone "sawing wood with a circular saw, and glass breaking" and saw sawhorses with wood across them. (10250)

Apparently, the garage door was mostly closed when he was hearing the sounds and about an hour later, it was all the way open when he saw the wood on the sawhorses so maybe this is when they were actually sawing off the shotguns? That doesn't sound right though because the shotgun was already sawn off in the Rampart Range video, wasn't it? Maybe this was sawing off pipes for additional pipebombs or something else necessary for the propane bombs?

I may have overlooked it but I haven't seen anything about sounds coming from the Klebold home and it seems likely to me that the shotguns were done at Eric's house even if it was at an earlier date.

(I put this post together before the other comments on the subject and I forgot to post it so I'm mostly repeating what has already been said but I guess it supports the idea that Eric had the necessary tools in his garage and it has some source pages so I'll post it anyway for future reference. )

Yes the guns were already cut in the Rampart video. Thus why they were complaining that their hands got cut up. But that video was just earlier in the year there so quite possible they cut them in March or so

Gotta love the accuracy of witness testimony..... then again IDK that I would remember something as mundane as when I saw sawhorses in a garage months or so before

04daviszoe wrote:

Not a question with a definitive answer but just for discussion sake, I wonder what Eric was referring to when he says "my parents might have made some mistakes they weren't really aware of". I tend to think he was referring to being moved around a lot, having to start over from the bottom etc, but I wonder if there's more to it than that.

I have always found that especially cruel of him.

I think he was frustrated with the fact that people had all the pieces to see what was going on and that nobody cared enough to put them together and that is why he chose to say that, also to strenghten his thought that what he is about to do is inevitable.

It is a sensitive subject to talk about Erics family since I cant really know anything for sure. I just get the feeling that his Dad was not so emotionally available and his relationship with his Mom did not allow for him to open up about darker things. His common interest (guns,war,explosives) with his dad gave him a letout for his anger and hunger for some sense of power and he was a bit disappointed that his Dad didn't recognize it for what it was and what emotional connection Eric had to it.

Erics tendency to boast about being able to manipulate is, according to me, a way to derive a sense of power from a powerless situation where nobody really cared to pay attention to what Eric was doing and why (mostly why). I feel like I have used that technique as well
Basically making the way it is (and that you dont seem to be able to change) into something you feel that you are contributing to yourself so at least you have control over your situation.

sscc wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Did the Harris's or Klebold's have any kind of saws? I assume Dylan's dad probably had quite a few because of all the work they did around the house. I was wondering where they sawed off their shotguns?

A witness said that she heard that Eric and "some other unidentified boys" were seen building something with band saws in Eric's garage on the Saturday of 4/17/99. (10239)
Another witness reported that he heard a power saw and observed saw horses with wood across them on the Sunday before 4/20 (the interview actually says 5/18/199 but obviously, that's not right). (10240)
The same witness reported in a different interview that he heard noises on 4/18/99 that sounded like someone "sawing wood with a circular saw, and glass breaking" and saw sawhorses with wood across them. (10250)

Apparently, the garage door was mostly closed when he was hearing the sounds and about an hour later, it was all the way open when he saw the wood on the sawhorses so maybe this is when they were actually sawing off the shotguns? That doesn't sound right though because the shotgun was already sawn off in the Rampart Range video, wasn't it? Maybe this was sawing off pipes for additional pipebombs or something else necessary for the propane bombs?

I may have overlooked it but I haven't seen anything about sounds coming from the Klebold home and it seems likely to me that the shotguns were done at Eric's house even if it was at an earlier date.

(I put this post together before the other comments on the subject and I forgot to post it so I'm mostly repeating what has already been said but I guess it supports the idea that Eric had the necessary tools in his garage and it has some source pages so I'll post it anyway for future reference. )

Thank you SSCC!

Lizpuff wrote:

sscc wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Did the Harris's or Klebold's have any kind of saws? I assume Dylan's dad probably had quite a few because of all the work they did around the house. I was wondering where they sawed off their shotguns?

A witness said that she heard that Eric and "some other unidentified boys" were seen building something with band saws in Eric's garage on the Saturday of 4/17/99. (10239)
Another witness reported that he heard a power saw and observed saw horses with wood across them on the Sunday before 4/20 (the interview actually says 5/18/199 but obviously, that's not right). (10240)
The same witness reported in a different interview that he heard noises on 4/18/99 that sounded like someone "sawing wood with a circular saw, and glass breaking" and saw sawhorses with wood across them. (10250)

Apparently, the garage door was mostly closed when he was hearing the sounds and about an hour later, it was all the way open when he saw the wood on the sawhorses so maybe this is when they were actually sawing off the shotguns? That doesn't sound right though because the shotgun was already sawn off in the Rampart Range video, wasn't it? Maybe this was sawing off pipes for additional pipebombs or something else necessary for the propane bombs?

I may have overlooked it but I haven't seen anything about sounds coming from the Klebold home and it seems likely to me that the shotguns were done at Eric's house even if it was at an earlier date.

(I put this post together before the other comments on the subject and I forgot to post it so I'm mostly repeating what has already been said but I guess it supports the idea that Eric had the necessary tools in his garage and it has some source pages so I'll post it anyway for future reference. )

Yes the guns were already cut in the Rampart video.  Thus why they were complaining that their hands got cut up.  But that video was just earlier in the year there so quite possible they cut them in March or so

Gotta love the accuracy of witness testimony..... then again IDK that I would remember something as mundane as when I saw sawhorses in a garage months or so before

I know Mark and Phil were made examples of while Robyn wasn't but watching Rampart Range and hearing Mark go "that's what happens when you let High School kids play with guns" then he lied and said he didn't know they were teenagers and how their actions that day made him uncomfortable... but you still sold them a gun and ammunition. Irks me to no end.


I agree, they were probably sawing things for pipe bombs and stuff like that.

munchkinphone wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

Not a question with a definitive answer but just for discussion sake, I wonder what Eric was referring to when he says "my parents might have made some mistakes they weren't really aware of". I tend to think he was referring to being moved around a lot, having to start over from the bottom etc, but I wonder if there's more to it than that.

I have always found that especially cruel of him.

I think he was frustrated with the fact that people had all the pieces to see what was going on and that nobody cared enough to put them together and that is why he chose to say that, also to strenghten his thought that what he is about to do is inevitable.

It is a sensitive subject to talk about Erics family since I cant really know anything for sure. I just get the feeling that his Dad was not so emotionally available and his relationship with his Mom did not allow for him to open up about darker things. His common interest (guns,war,explosives) with his dad gave him a letout for his anger and hunger for some sense of power and he was a bit disappointed that his Dad didn't recognize it for what it was and what emotional connection Eric had to it.

Erics tendency to boast about being able to manipulate is, according to me, a way to derive a sense of power from a powerless situation where nobody really cared to pay attention to what Eric was doing and why (mostly why). I feel like I have used that technique as well
Basically making the way it is (and that you dont seem to be able to change) into something you feel that you are contributing to yourself so at least you have control over your situation.

The fact that his, what I think were cries for help, were overlooked and not taken too seriously probably aided him into thinking what a great manipulator he was. He kept pushing the envelope. His teachers loved him, unlike Dylan's who had complaints about him, I'm pretty sure his Hitmen for Hire assignment earned him a B and some compliments (I'll have to look at the 11k again)

Another reason I get irritated when people take Dave Cullen's book as gospel. A quick research or even watching Eric in Columbine will debunk many of his assertions. I think it is interesting to compare Eric as a leader vs Dylan as the manipulator if that makes sense... who was actually manipulating who?

Eric seemed happy just having Dylan as a friend (though Alyssa and Kristi seemed to still get along with him throughout HS? Am I correct?) it was mostly the male friendships Eric ruined. Where as Dylan really wanted to keep up his helpful front "I'm going to produce a play, do sound for theatre and apply for colleges" etc.

As far as his parents, I agree with the thoughts on Wayne. His mom is another story. I'm not sure if either of their moms would have been ready to hear about their sons super dark side. I'm assuming like most parents back then and like my own mother, Kathy may have been like "Eric, you are so smart and handsome, don't let ANYONE get you down, you've been through so much and you'll be such a success.' then if he tries to tell her how much angrier he is getting, he may have just gotten a hug and a "talk to Dr. Albert about it"

Screamingophelia wrote:

munchkinphone wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

Not a question with a definitive answer but just for discussion sake, I wonder what Eric was referring to when he says "my parents might have made some mistakes they weren't really aware of". I tend to think he was referring to being moved around a lot, having to start over from the bottom etc, but I wonder if there's more to it than that.

I have always found that especially cruel of him.

I think he was frustrated with the fact that people had all the pieces to see what was going on and that nobody cared enough to put them together and that is why he chose to say that, also to strenghten his thought that what he is about to do is inevitable.

It is a sensitive subject to talk about Erics family since I cant really know anything for sure. I just get the feeling that his Dad was not so emotionally available and his relationship with his Mom did not allow for him to open up about darker things. His common interest (guns,war,explosives) with his dad gave him a letout for his anger and hunger for some sense of power and he was a bit disappointed that his Dad didn't recognize it for what it was and what emotional connection Eric had to it.

Erics tendency to boast about being able to manipulate is, according to me, a way to derive a sense of power from a powerless situation where nobody really cared to pay attention to what Eric was doing and why (mostly why). I feel like I have used that technique as well
Basically making the way it is (and that you dont seem to be able to change) into something you feel that you are contributing to yourself so at least you have control over your situation.

The fact that his, what I think were cries for help, were overlooked and not taken too seriously probably aided him into thinking what a great manipulator he was. He kept pushing the envelope. His teachers loved him, unlike Dylan's who had complaints about him, I'm pretty sure his Hitmen for Hire assignment earned him a B and some compliments (I'll have to look at the 11k again)

Another reason I get irritated when people take Dave Cullen's book as gospel. A quick research or even watching Eric in Columbine will debunk many of his assertions. I think it is interesting to compare Eric as a leader vs Dylan as the manipulator if that makes sense... who was actually manipulating who?

Eric seemed happy just having Dylan as a friend (though Alyssa and Kristi seemed to still get along with him throughout HS? Am I correct?) it was mostly the male friendships Eric ruined. Where as Dylan really wanted to keep up his helpful front "I'm going to produce a play, do sound for theatre and apply for colleges" etc.

As far as his parents, I agree with the thoughts on Wayne. His mom is another story. I'm not sure if either of their moms would have been ready to hear about their sons super dark side. I'm assuming like most parents back then and like my own mother, Kathy may have been like "Eric, you are so smart and handsome, don't let ANYONE get you down, you've been through so much and you'll be such a success.' then if he tries to tell her how much angrier he is getting, he may have just gotten a hug and a "talk to Dr. Albert about it"

"Talk to Dr. Albert about it" Something about that just makes me laugh.
It sounds like something you'd say when someone just keeps talking nonsense.
I have to use that sometime.

But I feel empathy with the sadness, anger and confusion of trying to articulate and understand your feelings without anyone really wanting to hear any of it. It makes you think that you may be so utterly fucked up that nobody can even consider understanding you.

That thought can work as a self fulfilling prophecy.

munchkinphone wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

munchkinphone wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

Not a question with a definitive answer but just for discussion sake, I wonder what Eric was referring to when he says "my parents might have made some mistakes they weren't really aware of". I tend to think he was referring to being moved around a lot, having to start over from the bottom etc, but I wonder if there's more to it than that.

I have always found that especially cruel of him.

I think he was frustrated with the fact that people had all the pieces to see what was going on and that nobody cared enough to put them together and that is why he chose to say that, also to strenghten his thought that what he is about to do is inevitable.

It is a sensitive subject to talk about Erics family since I cant really know anything for sure. I just get the feeling that his Dad was not so emotionally available and his relationship with his Mom did not allow for him to open up about darker things. His common interest (guns,war,explosives) with his dad gave him a letout for his anger and hunger for some sense of power and he was a bit disappointed that his Dad didn't recognize it for what it was and what emotional connection Eric had to it.

Erics tendency to boast about being able to manipulate is, according to me, a way to derive a sense of power from a powerless situation where nobody really cared to pay attention to what Eric was doing and why (mostly why). I feel like I have used that technique as well
Basically making the way it is (and that you dont seem to be able to change) into something you feel that you are contributing to yourself so at least you have control over your situation.

The fact that his, what I think were cries for help, were overlooked and not taken too seriously probably aided him into thinking what a great manipulator he was. He kept pushing the envelope. His teachers loved him, unlike Dylan's who had complaints about him, I'm pretty sure his Hitmen for Hire assignment earned him a B and some compliments (I'll have to look at the 11k again)

Another reason I get irritated when people take Dave Cullen's book as gospel. A quick research or even watching Eric in Columbine will debunk many of his assertions. I think it is interesting to compare Eric as a leader vs Dylan as the manipulator if that makes sense... who was actually manipulating who?

Eric seemed happy just having Dylan as a friend (though Alyssa and Kristi seemed to still get along with him throughout HS? Am I correct?) it was mostly the male friendships Eric ruined. Where as Dylan really wanted to keep up his helpful front "I'm going to produce a play, do sound for theatre and apply for colleges" etc.

As far as his parents, I agree with the thoughts on Wayne. His mom is another story. I'm not sure if either of their moms would have been ready to hear about their sons super dark side. I'm assuming like most parents back then and like my own mother, Kathy may have been like "Eric, you are so smart and handsome, don't let ANYONE get you down, you've been through so much and you'll be such a success.' then if he tries to tell her how much angrier he is getting, he may have just gotten a hug and a "talk to Dr. Albert about it"

"Talk to Dr. Albert about it" Something about that just makes me laugh.
It sounds like something you'd say when someone just keeps talking nonsense.
I have to use that sometime.

But I feel empathy with the sadness, anger and confusion of trying to articulate and understand your feelings without anyone really wanting to hear any of it. It makes you think that you may be so utterly fucked up that nobody can even consider understanding you.  

That thought can work as a self fulfilling prophecy.

I have empathy for that too.

I think Dylan felt similarly. He felt like he was so beyond hope that no one could or would help him. He started to kind of relish it later. Seeing it as a good thing and not a bad thing. He was a God and everyone else were zombies.

He did say compassion is the most important personalitytrait.

Btw, on an entirely different note, has anyone tried Erics favorite pizza? I have wanted to but felt a bit weird about ordering it. I would feel better about it if I know someone else has done it. "peproni and green peps", Sounds good to me.

I dont know why it weirds me out.

munchkinphone wrote:

He did say compassion is the most important personalitytrait.

Btw, on an entirely different note, has anyone tried Erics favorite pizza? I have wanted to but felt a bit weird about ordering it. I would feel better about it if I know someone else has done it. "peproni and green peps", Sounds good to me.

I dont know why it weirds me out.

I'm more of the combination pizza type. For some reason I think a pizza with ONLY pepperoni and green peppers would be kind of sad and naked looking.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

munchkinphone wrote:

He did say compassion is the most important personalitytrait.

Btw, on an entirely different note, has anyone tried Erics favorite pizza? I have wanted to but felt a bit weird about ordering it. I would feel better about it if I know someone else has done it. "peproni and green peps", Sounds good to me.

I dont know why it weirds me out.

I'm more of the combination pizza type. For some reason I think a pizza with ONLY pepperoni and green peppers would be kind of sad and naked looking.

Two pretty strong flavors together too.

I noticed Eric in his survey said one of his nicknames was Reverend, I’ve never heard anyone refer to him as that. Have you?

munchkinphone wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I noticed Eric in his survey said one of his nicknames was Reverend, I’ve never heard anyone refer to him as that. Have you?

It seems to have something to do with this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is interesting since it has to do with the Roman Empire and Eric and Dylan said in the basement tapes "Go Romans!"

I have never really came across Eric being referred to as Reverend either. Or if I have then I have forgotten it.

Also in a way they did want to bring about a type of Apocalypse.

munchkinphone wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I noticed Eric in his survey said one of his nicknames was Reverend, I’ve never heard anyone refer to him as that. Have you?

It seems to have something to do with this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is interesting since it has to do with the Roman Empire and Eric and Dylan said in the basement tapes "Go Romans!"

Thanks!

The leaked audio cut out early but we kind of hear Dylan laughing like you just called Jesus an asshole.

They certainly put a lot of thought into their nicknames.

Lol I deleted that when I realized that it was actually connected to his nickname as WAR.

However here is the picture.
Who do you think was famine and pestilence?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

People in the 11k mentioned Eric's nickname was either Reb or Reverend. I can't remember who. It is in the acquaintance section. Maybe someone with more time can find it

I remember at first thinking it was a typo because reb is close to rev but multiple people said it

Lizpuff wrote:

People in the 11k mentioned Eric's nickname was either Reb or Reverend.  I can't remember who.  It is in the acquaintance section.  Maybe someone with more time can find it

I remember at first thinking it was a typo because reb is close to rev but multiple people said it

Eric seemed like he could have been a preachy type person. Especially if it was something he was passionate about.

munchkinphone wrote:

Lol I deleted that when I realized that it was actually connected to his nickname as WAR.

However here is the picture.
Who do you think was famine and pestilence?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Famine i thought was Zach at first but maybe Nate and pestilence may be Chris

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

People in the 11k mentioned Eric's nickname was either Reb or Reverend.  I can't remember who.  It is in the acquaintance section.  Maybe someone with more time can find it

I remember at first thinking it was a typo because reb is close to rev but multiple people said it

Eric seemed like he could have been a preachy type person.  Especially if it was something he was passionate about.

True, didn’t he write that maybe things woukd be different if more people asked for his guidance?

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

People in the 11k mentioned Eric's nickname was either Reb or Reverend.  I can't remember who.  It is in the acquaintance section.  Maybe someone with more time can find it

I remember at first thinking it was a typo because reb is close to rev but multiple people said it

Eric seemed like he could have been a preachy type person.  Especially if it was something he was passionate about.

True,  didn’t he write that maybe things woukd be different if  more people asked for his guidance?

Yes he did.

I think it is interesting how the picture of the four horsemen has two things in common with a drawing Dylan made where it was alo the sky opening up, only instead of it revealing an innocent lamb it is his damn contrast symbol. But it also has a bunch of Z's at the bottom of it which stands for zombies (I think) which also is very similar to the picture of the four horsemen.

The drawing also depicts four rays from the contrasting symbol and there is four downwardspirals around it. The number is probably pure coincidence but those four rays and spirals could also be the symbol for the four of them. I don't know. I dont want to start claiming there was originally meant to be four shooters or anything...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Ok so the quality is bad but I hope you get the point, the disposition is similar.

munchkinphone wrote:

I think it is interesting how the picture of the four horsemen has two things in common with a drawing Dylan made where it was alo the sky opening up, only instead of it revealing an innocent lamb it is his damn contrast symbol. But it also has a bunch of Z's at the bottom of it which stands for zombies (I think) which also is very similar to the picture of the four horsemen.

The drawing also depicts four rays from the contrasting symbol and there is four downwardspirals around it. The number is probably pure coincidence but those four rays and spirals could also be the symbol for the four of them. I don't know. I dont want to start claiming there was originally meant to be four shooters or anything...

Which makes me guess it would be Nate and Zach over Chris. I'm not sure why I assume Chris was closer to Eric than to Dylan...

I just think Dylan's drawings were so personal to him, that if it represented the 4 of them, he would choose Zach over Chris.

There are so many interpretations of what the symbol meant too.

Do you ever wonder if Dylan just left these random pieces of paper around, with what he thought was just nonsense to screw with people and have people interested in his thoughts for years and years....

Maybe.. although I don't think so with the contrasting symbol. I understand what it means.

Those thoughtboxes is a great example of what might be just to confuse.

munchkinphone wrote:

Maybe.. although I don't think so with the contrasting symbol. I understand what it means.

Those thoughtboxes is a great example of what might be just to confuse.

I'm with you on that one, he did make an earring out of it too.

Granted I'm older now, buy his writings seemed a lot more deep and intense than most teenage boys, from what I recall.

I am trying to remember.. were Eric and Dylan's journals and writing released at the same time or were Dylan's released later? Maybe I'm thinking of the autopsy report.