The small questions thread

Rose The Hat wrote:

Is there someplace I can buy a printout of the 11k document? I know I could print it, but my SO would kill me. I think printing a doc that long would go through unknown quantities of ink and reams of paper.

I can't stand scrolling through the document. It isn't indexed, and I'm having trouble navigating the whole thing.

I don't know about buying physical copies of the 11k but you can look at this post and the one below it for some help with navigating the documents.
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Thanks for the link. This is some sad stuff. I know that Eric and Dylan were wrong, but I wish someone could have helped them. They were hurting.

I've been wondering, did Dylan and Eric have a nicotine addiction, or did they just smoke to look cool?

Olive wrote:

I've been wondering, did Dylan and Eric have a nicotine addiction, or did they just smoke to look cool?

Eric to look cool, he hates smoking and infact doesn't do it right on video. Dylan however legitimately smokes.

Hard to say, do we even know how long either of them smoked cigarettes?

Unsure how long either but I do know they go on smoke breaks at the smoking pit during school, can't remember where I read that Dylan and Brooks would be there and I think at some point that was when they occasionally see Rachel too as she used to smoke.

Which kind of accent did Eric have? I heard it was a Kansas accent.
If yes, how long did they live there?

vulnerableeyes wrote:

Which kind of accent did Eric have? I heard it was a Kansas accent.
If yes, how long did they live there?

He did not live there long. I would say Eric had a midwestern accent. He also lived in MI and they have a slightly similar accent there.

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I hate to say this because it sounds disrespectful but why was the kill count so low?
Two shotguns, one rifle, one handgun, and several bombs.

Many reasons.

As for the guns:

One reason is Dylan shortchanged himself of over half his ammunition [~80 rounds]. He also fired 19 shots from one location inside the North Hallway which probably didn't hit much.

Eric wasted a lot of shots [~45 of them] outside.

Guns Jamming, Eric/Dylan's decisions not to kill others, etc.


As for the bombs:

Dylan left 8/9 pipe bombs in his car. No pipe bombs were used in the Library. The car bombs/cafeteria bombs did not explode as intended. The 'crickets" were quite small and certainly did not kill anyone.

I already made a thread, but I figure that this is a better place to ask.

Who were the three students arrested during the shooting? What were their names and backgrounds?

The 3 students that were arrested were:

Matt Nalty (Page 007543), Matt Akard (Page 009821), and Jim Brunetti (Page 007434).


Splatter punks interview from the Sally show. The video it came from is called "An American Tragedy - The Littleton Massacre".

The splatter punks were wearing dark pants, white t-shirts and black waist length jackets at the time of their arrests. One of them was wearing black suspenders. In the interview they had an assortment of clothing items on nothing like what they were wearing the day of the shooting. This is all on the above mentioned tape. The splatter punks are: Matt Nalty, Jim Brunetti and Matt Ackert. Here is the interview:


Splatter Punks interview/Sally Jesse Raphael

Sally: And the people ask who else is responsible besides Dylan and Eric. Minutes after the shooting the police along with the swat team thought they had an answer didn't they, And what was the answer? The answer might have been Matt Nalte, Jim and Matt Ackert. They were detained, searched and questioned. Tell me about it. Tell me what happened.

Matt N: Well we started going down to, er we heard on the radio and

Sally: You were in a car?

Matt N: Yea we were driving around and decided to go down there and see what was going on. Kinda got us a bit curious. And we got down there and we started walking around a path that was going around the lake. There were people you know with baby strollers and kids you know roller blading and what not and so we thought we were fine. And we take about 10 steps off the path to go talk to a cop at the top of the hill to find out if we can get any more information and all of a sudden we hear sirens and there's 3 cop cars behind us with their guns pointed at us telling us to put our hands behind out head. We start doing everything they tell us to do then and get down on our knees and

Sally: What's going through your head?

Matt N: Scary. Pure fear.

Sally: Alright so you do everything they tell you to do.

Matt N: As we were getting down on our knees we see a golf cart coming up from the other side of the hill with about 7 swat team members all of 'em carrying M-16s and assault shot guns and they come up and they have all those pointed at our heads and they're still telling us what to do. They laid us flat down on the ground and started searching us and emptied our pockets and scattered it all over the field.

Sally: And you don't know what this is all about. Put yourself in that position. You don't know what this is all about. Now its retrospect. It was your own clothing that made them think you might be involved. Why?

Jim: inaudible.

Sally: Because you looked different?

Jim: Yea and they hand cuffed us.

Sally: They handcuffed you? For how long?

Jim: Yea they were dragging us around by the chains on our necks and stuff like that. They detained us for about an hour and questioned us on like if we knew the trench coat mafia and stuff like that. I mean we had never heard of them before that day.

Sally: What an experience. Now lets talk about the aftermath of that experience. You've had death threats?

Matt A: I have.

Jim: So have I.

Matt A: People seem to think we had something to do with it just because they saw us on TV. Um

Sally: In other words its just like in the newspaper. If somebody accuses you of something and then they retract it, the retractions on page 31 but the headline was on page 1.

Jim: Then it must be true what the press says and the press screwed up a lot with ours.

Sally: How did the press screw up?

Jim: um

Matt A: They said we were friends with these people that we hung out a lot that we talked over the Internet with them.

Sally: Were you friends? Did you talk.. Were you friends?

Matt A: No

Sally: Did you know them?

Matt A: No.

Sally: Did you know how they dressed?

All three in unison: No.

Matt A: We had no clue who they were. I mean we would not know anything about them.

Sally: So what's it like to have the nation watching you?

Matt A: Ah kinda scared. Kinda scary. I mean everywhere I go I'm like looking around cause I've..

Sally: Do you think that in anyway you're like Eric and Dylan?

Matt and Jim: No

Sally: Is that things that... Do you think about those things?

Matt A and Jim: No

Matt N: We don't go out and think about shooting people we don't condone violence at all. Its not at all a way of life.

Sally: Let me talk to Jim. Jim when we were interviewing you, you said some really interesting things to our producer. You have been pushed around and made fun of.

Jim: Oh yea. All throughout high school, um, even before then, because I was into this kind of stuff. I went through my gothic phase and I was a punk before that and went back to punk. And, um. I got pushed around in school by a lot of like, I don't know if they were athletic or not but they weren't like real nice kids. They would just like start pushing you around, push you into pop machines and try to throw you in trash cans. Like a big group of them.

Matt A: Jim and I went to school together and the only way we could keep from getting beat up or getting in a lot of trouble or anything was to stick together.

Sally: I have to ask this question. Why do you dress this way?

Matt A: Um, Its comfortable and the fact that..

Sally: Now wait. Its comfortable to have a chain around your neck and your hair out to here like that..

Matt A: These chains actually weigh less than a pound and they probably weigh a few ounces.

Sally: Now I don't take that you dress this way cause its comfortable.

Matt A: Actually the jeans you wear those pants you wear. Its like its those pants when you get off work and you go home and you want to change into something comfortable you know that you don't have to worry about anything That's what we want to wear. Something that we don't have to like worry about.

Jim: That and its also about expression.

Sally: Ah Ha! I'm not buying the its comfortable. I'm buying its a quote by you (Jim) Its a free country. We can dress how we want. I'm buying that. Why are you here today? What do you want to say?

Matt N: I want to say first off that we had no part in this at all.

Sally: Somebody lost their job over this right?

Matt N: I did

Sally: Say what your going to say. I didn't mean to interrupt.

Matt N: We had no part in this at all. We want society to know just because we look different, we act different, we think a bit different than what normal society does. Not all of us are like what Eric and Dylan are. We don't want to go out and do what they did. We don't believe anything like that.

Sally: We'll be right back


Page 008862: discusses the Sally tape.

I know this is an odd question, but how do we know that Eric felt no pain when he killed himself? I realize he basically blew the top of his head off....but he didn't feel a thing?? Not even for 1/10 of second? I admit that I know nothing about the medical aspect of shooting yourself they way he did. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] maybe you could help with this question?

Before his brain could even process it, it was already on the ceiling.

W.A.R wrote:

Before his brain could even process it, it was already on the ceiling.

smart guy.

Question regarding Kelly's jaw. It is described as being too small but on pictures it looks too big? What exactly was wrong with it?

Anyone know Eric and Dylan's SAT/ACT scores?

Their scores if they had any were never released.

ehunterjumper wrote:

Anyone know Eric and Dylan's SAT/ACT scores?

This post talks about Dylan's college prospects.
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queenfarooq says that his SAT scores were 560 in verbal and 650 in math, according to Kass' book.

Nothing about Eric's SAT scores but here is the information for Dylan's from Kass' Book:

Dylan filled out the boilerplate sections of the application by listing his father on the line for parent, and said no other relative had ever attended the school.

He intended to enroll in the fall in the College of Engineering and Mines to major in computer engineering.

His 2.74 G.P.A. ranked him 229 in a class of 463 in the middle of his senior year.

He had taken the SAT in June 1998, scoring 560 in verbal, and 650 in math for a total of 1210.

I have read Sue Klebold's book, I've read statements here, and there, in various articles and posts about Dylan from his closer circle of friends; from those descriptions, Dylan was a wonderful person!  However, when I read that Dylan harassed Adam Kyler for about a month in the Fall of '98,  I was shocked. Poor Adam had severe learning disabilities. Why would anyone target a truly innocent person like that?
    I wish more people outside of Dylan's circle would talk about their impressions of him. He grew up in that area. There must some people outside his inner circle who developed a stronger impression of him other than "Eric's little shadow"*.

*which is sad, considering their actual heights and height differences.


    Tldr, What do people who weren't close to Dylan say about his personality growing up?

Okay. One, or two, or more questions.

Do you think that Eric's mom purposefully undermined his signing with the Marines by asking Sgt. Gonzalez about Eric's Luvox therapy during the home recruitment interview? She asked about a delayed or deferred enrollment. Was she worried that he'd snap under the pressures of Marine boot camp? Maybe she should have just let it play out instead of intervening.

I know this has probably been discussed into the ground, but I can't find a thread for it.

Rose The Hat wrote:

Okay. One, or two, or more questions.

Do you think that Eric's mom purposefully undermined his signing with the Marines by asking Sgt. Gonzalez about Eric's Luvox therapy during the home recruitment interview? She asked about a delayed or deferred enrollment. Was she worried that he'd snap under the pressures of Marine boot camp? Maybe she should have just let it play out instead of intervening.

I know this has probably been discussed into the ground, but I can't find a thread for it.

She probably knew that it would have made him ineligible. Maybe she was worried that the Marines would find out later, and Eric would be in trouble.

myshame wrote:

Rose The Hat wrote:

Okay. One, or two, or more questions.

Do you think that Eric's mom purposefully undermined his signing with the Marines by asking Sgt. Gonzalez about Eric's Luvox therapy during the home recruitment interview? She asked about a delayed or deferred enrollment. Was she worried that he'd snap under the pressures of Marine boot camp? Maybe she should have just let it play out instead of intervening.

I know this has probably been discussed into the ground, but I can't find a thread for it.

She probably knew that it would have made him ineligible. Maybe she was worried that the Marines would find out later, and Eric would be in trouble.

They might have discharged him, but I seriously doubt it would have been a dishonorable discharge because of the Luvox issue. The military has changed a lot with the changes of society. Eric's life wouldn't have been ruined by getting "in trouble" with the Marines.

I think she knew Eric was a ticking time bomb and didn't want to put a gun in his hands. That's why I think she brought up the topic with the recruiter.

Little did she know, he already had guns. I don't think the Harris family knew about the arsenal.

Who are the two witnesses here?



At 3:58

These two witnesses are: Christopher Wisher (left) & Jacob Apodaca (right)

I meant the two at the time in the video at 3 minutes and 58 seconds.

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Okay, that would be:

Sara Houy (left)  and Crystal Woodman (right)

Thanks!

You are welcome, anytime.

Rose The Hat wrote:

   I have read Sue Klebold's book, I've read statements here, and there, in various articles and posts about Dylan from his closer circle of friends; from those descriptions, Dylan was a wonderful person!  However, when I read that Dylan harassed Adam Kyler for about a month in the Fall of '98,  I was shocked. Poor Adam had severe learning disabilities. Why would anyone target a truly innocent person like that?
    I wish more people outside of Dylan's circle would talk about their impressions of him. He grew up in that area. There must some people outside his inner circle who developed a stronger impression of him other than "Eric's little shadow"*.

*which is sad, considering their actual heights and height differences.


    Tldr, What do people who weren't close to Dylan say about his personality growing up?

If you read the 11k there are people who didn't really know Dylan who talked about him. Saying that he walked down the halls with a scowl on his face all the time. That he never talked, he slept in class or made rude comments to the teachers, and some saying he was not a very nice person. I do think he could have been a nice person if he liked you, but I think his depression was worn on his face. I do not think he was a nice guy to the average person.

Lizpuff wrote:

Rose The Hat wrote:

   I have read Sue Klebold's book, I've read statements here, and there, in various articles and posts about Dylan from his closer circle of friends; from those descriptions, Dylan was a wonderful person!  However, when I read that Dylan harassed Adam Kyler for about a month in the Fall of '98,  I was shocked. Poor Adam had severe learning disabilities. Why would anyone target a truly innocent person like that?
    I wish more people outside of Dylan's circle would talk about their impressions of him. He grew up in that area. There must some people outside his inner circle who developed a stronger impression of him other than "Eric's little shadow"*.

*which is sad, considering their actual heights and height differences.


    Tldr, What do people who weren't close to Dylan say about his personality growing up?

If you read the 11k there are people who didn't really know Dylan who talked about him.  Saying that he walked down the halls with a scowl on his face all the time.  That he never talked, he slept in class or made rude comments to the teachers, and some saying he was not a very nice person.  I do think he could have been a nice person if he liked you, but I think his depression was worn on his face.  I do not think he was a nice guy to the average person.  

Thanks, Lizpuff. I guess that is the general consensus of his junior and senior years. Was he like that in middle school and his first two years of high school?

Rose The Hat wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Rose The Hat wrote:

   I have read Sue Klebold's book, I've read statements here, and there, in various articles and posts about Dylan from his closer circle of friends; from those descriptions, Dylan was a wonderful person!  However, when I read that Dylan harassed Adam Kyler for about a month in the Fall of '98,  I was shocked. Poor Adam had severe learning disabilities. Why would anyone target a truly innocent person like that?
    I wish more people outside of Dylan's circle would talk about their impressions of him. He grew up in that area. There must some people outside his inner circle who developed a stronger impression of him other than "Eric's little shadow"*.

*which is sad, considering their actual heights and height differences.


    Tldr, What do people who weren't close to Dylan say about his personality growing up?

If you read the 11k there are people who didn't really know Dylan who talked about him.  Saying that he walked down the halls with a scowl on his face all the time.  That he never talked, he slept in class or made rude comments to the teachers, and some saying he was not a very nice person.  I do think he could have been a nice person if he liked you, but I think his depression was worn on his face.  I do not think he was a nice guy to the average person.  

Thanks, Lizpuff. I guess that is the general consensus of his junior and senior years. Was he like that in middle school and his first two years of high school?

My general consensus is no. I think he was always quiet and more of a nerdy smart kid but I do not think that before highschool he was so angry.

Did Eric's parents know that he was capable of something like this??? I ask because I know that his father kept a journal about things Eric was doing wrong and wrote that he doesn't think his son was at fault like his mother did and everyone else. Maybe he was in denial? Also, his father called into 911 saying he thought his son was involved with the shooting before he found out for sure that he was.

Was there kids under the tables in the commons when Dylan and Eric came in there?! (when we see them come in on the video tape)

Lizpuff wrote:

Rose The Hat wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Rose The Hat wrote:

   I have read Sue Klebold's book, I've read statements here, and there, in various articles and posts about Dylan from his closer circle of friends; from those descriptions, Dylan was a wonderful person!  However, when I read that Dylan harassed Adam Kyler for about a month in the Fall of '98,  I was shocked. Poor Adam had severe learning disabilities. Why would anyone target a truly innocent person like that?
    I wish more people outside of Dylan's circle would talk about their impressions of him. He grew up in that area. There must some people outside his inner circle who developed a stronger impression of him other than "Eric's little shadow"*.

*which is sad, considering their actual heights and height differences.


    Tldr, What do people who weren't close to Dylan say about his personality growing up?

If you read the 11k there are people who didn't really know Dylan who talked about him.  Saying that he walked down the halls with a scowl on his face all the time.  That he never talked, he slept in class or made rude comments to the teachers, and some saying he was not a very nice person.  I do think he could have been a nice person if he liked you, but I think his depression was worn on his face.  I do not think he was a nice guy to the average person.  

Thanks, Lizpuff. I guess that is the general consensus of his junior and senior years. Was he like that in middle school and his first two years of high school?

My general consensus is no.  I think he was always quiet and more of a nerdy smart kid but I do not think that before highschool he was so angry.  

apparently dylan also liked to give out cookies during class so he would be more likeable that made me lol "He slipped chocolate chip cookies to the girl who sat next to him.
Jeniffer Harmon, who took creative writing with the two boys who later would shoot up her school, says the shy Dylan regularly passed Chips Ahoy - the chewy kind with big chocolate chunks - as a way to make friends in class." Shit, how do you go from giving out cookies to killing people?!

KatieJean1988 wrote:

Was there kids under the tables in the commons when Dylan and Eric came in there?! (when we see them come in on the video tape)

Yes, there were still a few people under tables around 11:44am when Eric/Dylan first came down to the commons/cafeteria.

Did they get shot at or they weren't seen??

They didn't get shot.

They ran out after the fire started in the cafeteria/commons.

I don't know if Eric/Dylan saw them.

What is the reason that Dylan and Eric didn't shoot everyone that was in the library??? I never understood that... Did they not see some of them or they just decided not to shoot them... if so, why??

Because they wanted to be percieved as godlike by deciding who lives and who dies so they let some people live and killed others.  At least that's what has been speculated. They also didn't seem to kill students they've had conversations with that day.

areyoulistening wrote:

Lifetime wrote:

To be honest, I think Wayne Harris was to busy just trying to get Eric on the right track to really take note of the problems his son was having. To me it's almost like he just wanted Eric to get over everything and to just live a successful life so he tried to just push Eric through all the trouble he was getting into.

I want to know how Eric's parents reacted when Eric check off on his psychological evaluation the he was having homicidal thoughts. It's just strange that no one seemed to take that seriously.

According to Mrs Harris when they met with Mr and Mrs Mauser, the therapist that they sent Eric to, told them that everything was fine. It was a routine answer, or something to that effect. They assumed that they had nothing to worry about. How true that is, who knows expect them but all we have is their word.

As for trying to push him through everything, I think that he was worried about him. He kept a journal detailing stuff right? In my opinion, he was a military man, he was never going to have a soft and fuzzy "group hug" attitude to things. I just think that he dealt with things the only way that he knew how.

completely agree

Does anyone know Eric's address when he lived in Oscoda?  I live really close to Oscoda, and it's a very small town so I was shocked to hear he lived there briefly. I hate the idea of his house being a shrine, but it's just creepy to think how close I am to it, ya know?

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''You just can't do anything that's aberrant or unlikely without someone finding out about it,'' said Mark Mayerstein, a retired lieutenant colonel whose family shared a duplex with the Harrises at Wurtsmith Air Force Base in Oscoda, Mich. ''We never even heard the kids cry.''

Mr. Mayerstein's son, Lane, and a third boy played war games with Eric, who lived in Oscoda for two and a half years. ''The three of us would be on a mission,'' Lane said. ''We'd be out to destroy this invisible armada.''

At Cedar Lake Elementary School in Oscoda, the Harrises stood out because both Wayne, a pilot who trained people to fly the KC-135 refueling plane, and Kathy, a homemaker, attended every school conference. Bonnie Leach, Eric's fifth-grade teacher there, said that she could sense which students would grow up to chase trouble, and that ''Eric wasn't one of them.''

The Wurtsmith base closed in 1991, sending the Harrises to Plattsburgh, N.Y.,


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In 1989, Wayne Harris, still flying KC-135 refueling tankers, was transferred to the Wurtsmith Air Force base in Oscoda, Mich., a small city near the shore of Lake Huron. Instead of living on base, he bought a two-story, Cape Cod-style home in a comfortable subdivision next to Cedar Lake.

"I just remember they wanted the children to have a normal, off-base relationship in a normal community," says the Rev. Bill Stone, a pastor who lived across the street. "They were just great neighbors - friendly, outgoing, caring."

Wayne Harris, a Scoutmaster and baseball coach, got elected to the nine-member Lake Shores Property Owners Association. Kathy Harris was a stay-at-home mom. The family lived on a wooded lot on a street where deer often graze in the flower gardens and kids splash around at the neighborhood beach club. After work, Wayne Harris shot baskets with his two boys. Eric Harris attended third and fourth grades at Cedar Lake Elementary School. But their stay ended when Wurtsmith was shut down at the end of 1991 and Wayne Harris was transferred to the air base in Plattsburgh, N.Y.


Jeff Kass' Book:

When Eric was eight and in third grade, Wayne was transferred and his family moved to Wurtsmith Air Force Base in Oscoda, Michigan. It was 1989.
Oscoda is located on an arc of land on Michigan’s northeastern side and fronts Lake Huron. The township population back then was about twelve thousand, and Eric remembered it as a “very, very small town.” The family lived in what Eric called “a largely wooded area” and, “of the three close neighbors I had, two of them had children my age. Every day we would play in the woods or at our houses. We would make forts in the woods or make them out of snow, we would ride around on our bikes, or just explore the woods. It was probably the most fun I ever had in my childhood,” he wrote in a class paper. After living in the township, the family moved onto the base, according to Eric. He described it as “old” and having homes like “small condos.” He also had lots of neighbors. But he was sad about leaving his friends, “especially my best friend” in Oscoda, he wrote. “Even though we 85 were still only a 10 minute drive away, we only saw each other maybe three times after that. We lived on the Air Force Base for about half a year. I made friends there, some were good, but none were as good as my friends at my old house.” The new friends had adventures, too. “We still lived close to a large wooded area so we would travel around in there almost every day,” Eric wrote. “We were all the same age too, so that made it even more fun.” At Cedar Lake Elementary School, Eric’s parents attended every school conference, according to the New York Times. Eric’s fifth grade teacher did not foresee him as a troublemaker, and a neighbor told the paper, “We never even heard the kids cry.” The Harrises left Oscoda after a couple years. “It was real hard leaving my friends again,” Eric recalled. “And that time I had to say goodbye to my first best friend for good.”

What was the name of the book that Eric quoted a couple of times? From The Stars, or something like that?

Return from the Stars by Stanislaw Lem

026636-026642 Return from the Stars by Eric 4/27/98 Period 5 Mr. Webb
026752 Return from the Stars by Eric 4/27/98 Period 5 Mr. Webb

sororityalpha wrote:

Return from the Stars by Stanislaw Lem

026636-026642 Return from the Stars by Eric 4/27/98 Period 5 Mr. Webb
026752 Return from the Stars by Eric 4/27/98 Period 5 Mr. Webb

Thanks!

What kind of ''combat'' boots were they wearing?
I'm not sure what people in America buy but the only thing I can think of is Dr Martens