The small questions thread

TaylorsMom wrote:

I honestly don't think they were quite ready for the up close and personal killings.  Waiting outside while the school blows to smitherines not having to see exactly who you are killing is a lot different than blowing them away one by one...just my opinion though!

Good point. I didn't really consider this. I guess all that changed by the time they got to the library...

C.W. wrote:

Perhaps they anticipated the bombs going off late.

That makes sense too. And they did come back into the cafeteria to check on them a second time, so that would indicate to me that they were still hoping that they might explode.

So, only I have opinion that NBK was totally failed?

munchkinphone wrote:

To be fair I have never seen any information on underpants, I'm a little impressed. Maybe tumblr isn't such a bad place after all

It was in autopsy report.
Fan girls was pretty happy about this information, I guess.

Jea wrote:

So, only I have opinion that NBK was totally failed?

If you base NBK on what Eric and Dylan planned then yes it totally failed. The bombs did not go off, the library didn't come crashing down, the two didn't sit outside and pick off the fleeing kids, and they didn't die in an epic shootout with the police.

Lizpuff wrote:

Jea wrote:

So, only I have opinion that NBK was totally failed?

If you base NBK on what Eric and Dylan planned then yes it totally failed.  The bombs did not go off, the library didn't come crashing down, the two didn't sit outside and pick off the fleeing kids, and they didn't die in an epic shootout with the police.  

I agree that they (especially Eric) probably perceived it as a total failure but the funny thing is that despite their destructive ambitions to ensure lasting recognition, 13 murders and two suicides were all that was necessary to shake up the entire nation and create a lasting impression that is now inching closer to being the go-to reference for school shootings for the past 20 years. And we can't forget the dozens of copycats and copycat attempts, including Seung-Hui Cho, who still holds the infamous title of "most deadly school shooter" after 10 years. The immediate plan was a failure but the "inspirational" legacy that they left behind was probably more successful than they could ever have imagined.

sscc wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Jea wrote:

So, only I have opinion that NBK was totally failed?

If you base NBK on what Eric and Dylan planned then yes it totally failed.  The bombs did not go off, the library didn't come crashing down, the two didn't sit outside and pick off the fleeing kids, and they didn't die in an epic shootout with the police.  

I agree that they (especially Eric) probably perceived it as a total failure but the funny thing is that despite their destructive ambitions to ensure lasting recognition, 13 murders and two suicides were all that was necessary to shake up the entire nation and create a lasting impression that is now inching closer to being the go-to reference for school shootings for the past 20 years. And we can't forget the dozens of copycats and copycat attempts, including Seung-Hui Cho, who still holds the infamous title of "most deadly school shooter" after 10 years. The immediate plan was a failure but the "inspirational" legacy that they left behind was probably more successful than they could ever have imagined.

I'm agree. And truly it's an absurd situation. Also many people, who had/have the same problems as Eric in Dylan, one way or another associate themselves with E&D, even in myself I have found so many thoughts and emotions that Eric had. Unfortunately admirers cant look wide, natural selection assume the strongest one will survive, but Eric and Dylan died. Also you can be bullied and feel frustrated, but if individual dreames to stab/cut someone (important no just act of killing to satisfy inner anger, but to experience something really brutal)  that is diffidently some kind of issues beyond external factors.

Jea wrote:

So, only I have opinion that NBK was totally failed?

Not at all! I completely agree that NBK was a total failure. That wasn't really my question though. My question was more specific. I was just wondering why they didn't storm the cafeteria as soon as they realized the bombs hadn't detonated.

rocketkween17 wrote:

Not at all! I completely agree that NBK was a total failure. That wasn't really my question though. My question was more specific. I was just wondering why they didn't storm the cafeteria as soon as they realized the bombs hadn't detonated.

Is your SN named after the Guns N' Roses song?

rocketkween17 wrote:

Jea wrote:

So, only I have opinion that NBK was totally failed?

Not at all! I completely agree that NBK was a total failure. That wasn't really my question though. My question was more specific. I was just wondering why they didn't storm the cafeteria as soon as they realized the bombs hadn't detonated.

because they entered the school and started to follow on students and shot in their backs, and some of them brought killers to library. Btw, at that time most of the students was already evacuated from cafeteria. immideatly after first shots Dave Sanders said that everyone need to leave, cuz it's serious.

Jea wrote:

rocketkween17 wrote:

Jea wrote:

So, only I have opinion that NBK was totally failed?

Not at all! I completely agree that NBK was a total failure. That wasn't really my question though. My question was more specific. I was just wondering why they didn't storm the cafeteria as soon as they realized the bombs hadn't detonated.

because they entered the school and started to follow on students and shot in their backs, and some of them brought killers to library. Btw, at that time most of the students was already evacuated from cafeteria. immideatly after first shots Dave Sanders said that everyone need to leave, cuz it's serious.

Maybe I am not phrasing my question correctly...

We know that they were waiting in the parking lot for the bombs to detonate at approximately 11:15.

My question was: When Eric and Dylan realized the bombs had failed to detonate, why didn't they run into the cafeteria and start shooting at the hundreds of students who were eating their lunch? No shots had been fired at this stage and the students in the cafeteria would have been taken by surprise.

Instead, they chose to start shooting out the front of the school where there was only half a dozen students. Therefore, alerting Dave Sanders and the students in the cafeteria and causing the evacuation.

If the plan was to kill over 250 students, it would have made more sense for them to begin shooting in the cafeteria and not at the entrance to the school. Would it not?

I have come to the realization that they probably just weren't thinking properly. Their plan had failed and they hadn't made a Plan B. They probably just saw Rachel and Daniel sitting on the grass and started shooting. Not thinking it through due to a mixture of adrenaline, excitement and anticipation.

Anyways, I just wanted to see if anyone else had any other theories on why they made the choices that they did on that day.

You answered your question "probably just weren't thinking properly".

Bombs didn't detonated, guys was confused by this fact and than just started to shot everyone who was on they way.
I have also a question why they had killed only 10 people in library, because inside there was almost 40, are they didn't knew that some percent of victims usually survive, especially if your shooting skills not so high, and if NBK's purpose was to kill many as possible, didn't they should to walk around the library and make a control shot? I think in that point fantasy and reality went to the opposite direction.

Hmm... I thought about that too.

I think it was a combination of things. TaylorsMom wrote earlier "I honestly don't think they were quite ready for the up close and personal killings" and I completely agree with that. This would also explain why Eric fired some (not all) of his shots without even looking under the tables to see who he was shooting at.

I also think that they enjoyed terrorizing the students just as much as killing them. They enjoyed being in control of someone else's life and seeing the fear on their faces.

This all makes me think that maybe the kill count wasn't that important to them after all. It was more about installing fear and leaving a legacy.

E & D failed at meeting their goal on NBK for the same reason they planned it.. they were young, immature, unsuccessful and underachievers..

They could have developed into something special, but as of 4/20/99 they were fuck ups... what you see is what you get.

I wonder, if there ever was official reports from criminal profiler about Eric and Dylan personality and mental state analysis?

A few questions:

Can't find a thread on it, but who/what does Eric wave to in the Cafeteria?

Did a SWAT agent actually have a clear view of them in the library but never fire at them? I've read in the 11k that Dylan was visible for a few seconds when he appeared at the library door (the exit the survivors escaped through) and the kids behind the cop car were mad the cop didn't shoot. But that was a cop not a swat team member, maybe the person mixed them up?

Where does Nate Dykeman talk about looking into the library windows with binoculars?

Also, asking again hoping someone might be able to answer this time, did people actually see them in the library walk around? I've read somewhere that Robyn and some friends did, but weren't they stuck in that car for hours? This would be people in the parking lot or anyone that could see the windows (maybe the mass of people on top of the hill?).

Thankful for any answers!

There was a lot of speculation that day. A lot of the cops were shooting at shadows thinking it was E&D. Reality was they never really had a clear shot of them esp in the library. Neil had the closest shot when Eric was at the doors.

There were some reports that people saw them thru the library windows and there was even a gif made to show what people thought was Eric running across the room but reality was it was not him.

rocketkween17 wrote:

Hmm... I thought about that too.

I think it was a combination of things. TaylorsMom wrote earlier "I honestly don't think they were quite ready for the up close and personal killings" and I completely agree with that. This would also explain why Eric fired some (not all) of his shots without even looking under the tables to see who he was shooting at.

I also think that they enjoyed terrorizing the students just as much as killing them. They enjoyed being in control of someone else's life and seeing the fear on their faces.

This all makes me think that maybe the kill count wasn't that important to them after all. It was more about installing fear and leaving a legacy.

I do believe that they were just aiming and shooting at a mass of bodies without trying to actually pick out people to shoot. Isaiah was the only one that was really picked out as a target, but in my opinion it probably had little to do with his race.

I agree with them wanting to have complete control. That they probably relished that power. One good example is how Eric made Bree P. beg for her life, also Dylan letting Evan T. live.

For that moment they were in total control and in a sense were Gods with the power to decide who lived or died.

I was reading a lot of the 11 K over the weekend. I recently found out to that Michelle Hartsough was One of the voices in the car wax commercial. She’s the girl that said Krista come here and possibly said I don’t like that kid when Dylan was on camera. Did she go to Columbine? I always pictured her older than them like in her 30s.

munchkinphone wrote:

I want to know what people who have read Sue Klebolds book thinks of that whole incident where Dylan and everyone in class laughed when the teacher played a song.

Honestly I found the song a bit amusing and understood why they laughed when I heard it.

I feel it was kind of weird of his parents to play it for him at home and make him say it was good. I feel like they should've told him to respect other peoples opinions rather than try to make him change his own. Forcing opinions on people never works.

I feel that that whole situation says a bit about his relationship to his family, that he kind of just gave up and said the song was OK while probably still not liking it and then his parents felt like they somehow achieved something.

I’m glad you asked that. It’s one of the parts the book that gives me pause. I think it also says a little bit about the family when Miss Kelley said the content was disturbing they were worried that it was sex and not violence.

I have no doubt Dylan was just placating his parents and said the song was fine. I think he did a lot of that during the year before his death.

2 questions, one is more of a thought.

I was reading an old thread a while back about A Mothers Reckoning and someone posted that

"Dylans own father said it wasn't up to him to figure out why this happened" I've scoured but I cannot find where he said that. Was it maybe from Far from the Trees?

Another thing I was thinking about, Beth Nimmo had said I think around the time I'm Not Ashamed came out and Judy Brown agreed that Dylan had a crush on Rachel and Rachel "reached out to him" but made sure to say NOT in a romantic way.. now we all know a lot of this is false. We don't know that Dylan had a crush on Rachel but they did know each other casually and had Devon as a mutual friend.

It got me thinking, I'm sure her mom said this because no one wants to think Rachel could have been interested in someone who killed but would it have been so bad if she did LIKE Dylan? Heaven forbid Dylan be a viable option? He was shy but also smart and had a similar interest in theatre.

We have spoken about this before I know, but no one is going to really come out and admit if they had a crush on either of them, but I'm sure they felt like this most days.. that they really weren't good enough for any girls around them.

I could see Rachel perhaps liking Dylan. The ones that knew her said she had a soft spot for troubled people. Wanting to him them out of the funk. Maybe she saw how he carried himself during the dramas and thought he was someone who needed someone.

I don't see Dylan as liking Rachel though. Not at all. I think she was too social for him and hung out with all the wrong people

Lizpuff wrote:

I could see Rachel perhaps liking Dylan.  The ones that knew her said she had a soft spot for troubled people.  Wanting to him them out of the funk.  Maybe she saw how he carried himself during the dramas and thought he was someone who needed someone.  

I don't see Dylan as liking Rachel though.  Not at all.  I think she was too social for him and hung out with all the wrong people

I agree. No matter how kind Rachel was, I think he'd still look at her as being way too popular and a social butterfly.

Jea wrote:

I wonder, if there ever was official reports from criminal profiler about Eric and Dylan personality and mental state analysis?

I don't think there is any "official" reports but Dr. Peter Langham is a psychologist who has attempted to diagnose Eric and Dylan's mental illnesses. His website has some interesting articles on it [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and he has written two books too

rocketkween17 wrote:

Jea wrote:

I wonder, if there ever was official reports from criminal profiler about Eric and Dylan personality and mental state analysis?

I don't think there is any "official" reports but Dr. Peter Langham is a psychologist who has attempted to diagnose Eric and Dylan's mental illnesses. His website has some interesting articles on it [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and he has written two books too  

Dwayne Fusilier has also offered his opinion. But I believe his is extremely biased

who else? I'm so curious to read) I google it, but there was so strange people, who saying almost the same.

Lizpuff wrote:

rocketkween17 wrote:

Jea wrote:

I wonder, if there ever was official reports from criminal profiler about Eric and Dylan personality and mental state analysis?

I don't think there is any "official" reports but Dr. Peter Langham is a psychologist who has attempted to diagnose Eric and Dylan's mental illnesses. His website has some interesting articles on it [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and he has written two books too  

Dwayne Fusilier has also offered his opinion.  But I believe his is extremely biased

I think I've asked about this before but is there any official full-length analysis written by Fuselier? I think when I searched for this in the past, I could only find brief quotes in articles where he spoke about it.

"It has been confirmed, after getting my yearbook and watching people like (redacted) and (redacted)
the human race isn’t worth fighting for, only worth killing."

anyone have an idea what Eric meant by this? Or remember a part of the yearbook that could trigger him like this?

Well, names were redacted and we can only guess of whom he wrote this note

Two questions

Was it Steve Curnow or Danny Mauser who supposedly said to Eric-haven’t you done enough?

Also a few things were removed from the CHS 1999 yearbook like Robyn’s ode to the TCM but was Zach’s senior quote about hating the school and Nate’s thank you to E&D kept in? Devon mentions Dylan in her note to the seniors to.

as I know it was Tomlin who said:"Haven't you done enough!"

Jea wrote:

as I know it was Tomlin who said:"Haven't you done enough!"

Thank you!

Yes, that was Tomlin, Curnow was shot early on I believe and didn't John say that around the time Lauren was killed? Correct me if I'm wrong.

TaylorsMom wrote:

Yes, that was Tomlin, Curnow was shot early on I believe and didn't John say that around the time Lauren was killed?  Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think it was after Nicole Nowlen, the girl under the same table, was shot. Lauren was a little further away

Where was it reported he said this? As Nowlen doesn't mention it in the 11k. She does mention John may have tried to jump out under the table when Eric was about to fire the second time and Nicole felt John's leg shaking after Dylan had shot him in the head.

This is from Jeff Kass’s book


Just the week before the rampage, the boys had to write a poem for an English class. Harris wrote about stopping the hate and loving the world. Klebold went to the prom the weekend before the slaughter; Harris couldn’t get a date but joined him at the postprom parties, to celebrate with students they were planning to kill.  

What poem was that?

Possibly silly 11 K question. Eric and Dylan’s parents were interviewed for it right? I think I’ve probably read it but you know it’s 11,000 pages. However I’m wondering I assume the police talk to Byron and Kevin why wouldn’t that be released?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Possibly silly 11 K question. Eric and Dylan’s parents were interviewed for it right? I think I’ve probably read it but you know it’s 11,000 pages. However I’m wondering I assume the police talk to Byron and Kevin why wouldn’t that be released?

You can find the family's interviews in the 11k yes along with neighbors who did provide some insights such as Dylan drove way too fast with a too loud radio

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Possibly silly 11 K question. Eric and Dylan’s parents were interviewed for it right? I think I’ve probably read it but you know it’s 11,000 pages. However I’m wondering I assume the police talk to Byron and Kevin why wouldn’t that be released?

You can find the family's interviews in the 11k yes along with neighbors who did provide some insights such as Dylan drove way too fast with a too loud radio

Thanks! Were Kevin and Byron interviewed?

I wonder if Sue has responded anywhere concerning Nikolas Cruz?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I wonder if Sue has responded anywhere concerning Nikolas Cruz?

Oh I’d love to know that too. I bet she’d have some interesting insight and she Is speaking across the country.

On another note, did Littlelo fall off the face of the earth?

Maybe she needed a break from all the true crime.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I wonder if Sue has responded anywhere concerning Nikolas Cruz?

Oh I’d love to know that too.

On another note, did Littlelo fall off the face of the earth?

Maybe she needed a break from all the true crime.

I noticed that she disappeared the day after our "January Incident" and hasn't been back. I sent her a pm as soon as I was able to after the ban was lifted, but she has yet to log back on. I hope everything is ok with her.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I wonder if Sue has responded anywhere concerning Nikolas Cruz?

Oh I’d love to know that too.

On another note, did Littlelo fall off the face of the earth?

Maybe she needed a break from all the true crime.

I noticed that she disappeared the day after our "January Incident" and hasn't been back. I sent her a pm as soon as I was able to after the ban was lifted, but she has yet to log back on. I hope everything is ok with her.

Yeah I'm worried about her too. We had some good natter on the subs and private messages.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I wonder if Sue has responded anywhere concerning Nikolas Cruz?

Oh I’d love to know that too.

On another note, did Littlelo fall off the face of the earth?

Maybe she needed a break from all the true crime.

I noticed that she disappeared the day after our "January Incident" and hasn't been back. I sent her a pm as soon as I was able to after the ban was lifted, but she has yet to log back on. I hope everything is ok with her.

I messaged her too! That’s kind of a crappy thing sometimes about not knowing anyone in a forum because you don’t know if they’re sick or in the hospital or something.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I wonder if Sue has responded anywhere concerning Nikolas Cruz?

Oh I’d love to know that too.

On another note, did Littlelo fall off the face of the earth?

Maybe she needed a break from all the true crime.

I noticed that she disappeared the day after our "January Incident" and hasn't been back. I sent her a pm as soon as I was able to after the ban was lifted, but she has yet to log back on. I hope everything is ok with her.

I messaged her too!  That’s kind of a crappy thing sometimes about  not knowing anyone in a forum because you don’t know if they’re sick or in the hospital or something.

Agreed. Hopefully she will come back.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I wonder if Sue has responded anywhere concerning Nikolas Cruz?

Oh I’d love to know that too.

On another note, did Littlelo fall off the face of the earth?

Maybe she needed a break from all the true crime.

I noticed that she disappeared the day after our "January Incident" and hasn't been back. I sent her a pm as soon as I was able to after the ban was lifted, but she has yet to log back on. I hope everything is ok with her.

I messaged her too!  That’s kind of a crappy thing sometimes about  not knowing anyone in a forum because you don’t know if they’re sick or in the hospital or something.

Agreed. Hopefully she will come back.

me too!!

I had a thought, I'm not sure if it warrants its own thread but I know Devon has spoken about intimacy issues while dating and how hard it is to mention where she went to HS and I'm sure students from CHS get a lot of questions..

Then I thought of Kevin and Byron being as young as they were back then and how it affected them? Granted Kevin's last name is common so he doesn't really have to mention his brother and how he died to a potential mate for a while, he has time to figure out how to talk about his brother. Though I wonder how he answers a question like "do you have siblings?"

Byron's last name is much more unique and Dylan's name was plastered all over the place so it would be hard to believe that no one would raise an eyebrow and ask him about it.

Sorry off topic!

Who had the Naive sticker on their car, Eric or Dylan? I'm leaning slightly more towards Eric but I have a twinge of doubt that it could be Dylan.

Obviously asking only the questions that really matter, go me but it's been annoying me for so long..

Clinton Moore told Chris Walker that Nate Dykeman told him of a time in which Klebold was “very scary.” A fight had occurred and he described Klebold as going “crazy.”

Does anybody know why Nate wasn't questioned about this?

It would be interesting to know when this happened and just generally get more details about what happened.

munchkinphone wrote:

Clinton Moore told Chris Walker that Nate Dykeman told him of a time in which Klebold was “very scary.” A fight had occurred and he described Klebold as going “crazy.”

Does anybody know why Nate wasn't questioned about this?

It would be interesting to know when this happened and just generally get more details about what happened.

I wonder if it was a fight with Nate or if he observed Dylan fighting with someone.

Also scary like saying he wanted to hurt himself or being threatening... that info could have helped people understand Dylan.